Thread: Which Messianic Judaism Are We Supposed To Believe?
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Which Messianic Judaism Are We Supposed To Believe?
Posted : 18 Sep, 2012 07:54 PM
Taken from www.shema.com....
"In one sense, Messianic Judaism and Christianity are the same thing. There is only one faith. Messianic Jews and Christians share the same core beliefs. Messianic Judaism is the same faith but it is expressed within the Jewish heritage."
This quote seems contrary to some things I have read on this board. Who are we to believe? A man or other men?
http://www.shema.com/messianic_judaism.php
I find it slightly hypocritical for when some act as if there are no divisions in this movement...while Christianity is rampant with them. I've found several divisions.
Something I found online and felt I should share about �Why do Messianics keep the commandments if they believe in Christ�? The truth is, numerous times in the New Testament we are told to keep them. Many Christians believe that the commandments do not matter because Christ came and filled the prophecy, which is true. Read here:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matt 5:17-20 (KJV)
As we can see, Christ says that until HEAVEN AND EARTH pass that we are to continue to observe the law. Many argue upon Yeshua�s crucifixion He said �It is fulfilled� when in fact we read �It is finished�. I am putting the verse here for reference:
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. John 19:30 (KJV)
The truth is that while the commandments are not required for salvation, they are required as a sign of devotion to God and our willing to submit to His Will. Numerous verses are mentioned in the New Testament about how we are to keep the commandments.:
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matt 5:19-20 (KJV)
Matt , as posted above, specifically says we are to keep the commandments, no matter how little. For is we do not keep them, we are as the Pharisees and cannot enter heaven. If anything, Christianity has it wrong. In Acts 11:26 it says the Disciples (who would be Jewish, or Jewish by faith) were first called Christians in Antioch. This only goes to show that even now Christians are to be Jewish, however, our twisting of the Word of God has led to such a division. Messianic Judaism is the mission to bring back the TRUE way of following Christ. While we are saved by faith in Christ alone, the word also states this:
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21 (KJV)
To truly show your love for Christ the commandments must be followed. You will hear many arguments about how the laws do not apply, and you are right. For SALVATION itself, the laws are not required. However, there is a catch: If you truly accept and love Christ, and confess Him as your savior, following the Law is required as part of that covenant. We are not perfect, but we are supposed to strive to be so. A good example is 1 Cor 7:19, which talks about how circumcision is neither needed nor not needed, but father we do it because it is commanded, and it is following the command that is important, no matter what the command is:
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 1 Cor 7:19 (KJV)
In closing, I will leave some addition verses that discuss the keeping of the law and some other important verses. I sincerely pray many Christians learn to know the Scripture, for there is much we do that needs to change, including the following of traditions of men, which we are warned about, such as Christmas, Halloween, Easter (all of which are pagan holidays, not Christian) as well as what we eat, say, watch on TV and how we act.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matt 5:19-20 (KJV)
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Matt 19:17 (KJV)
If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15 (KJV)
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. John 14:21-24 (KJV)
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:10 (KJV)
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 1 Cor 7:19 (KJV)
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 1 John 5:2-3 (KJV)
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. 2 John 1:6 (KJV)
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12 (KJV)
Which Messianic Judaism Are We Supposed To Believe?
Posted : 19 Sep, 2012 07:19 AM
To provoke some thought I will post a refutation of Messianic Judaism, copied from http://www.bethelministries.com/MESSIANIC_JEWS.htm
Please read these enlightening scripture verses before reading the following main article.
1. The apostle Paul, a Jew said, "I MYSELF AM NOT UNDER THE LAW" (1 Cor. 9:20).
2. "ALL WHO RELY ON OBSERVING THE LAW ARE UNDER A CURSE" (Gal. 3:10).
3. "CHRIST REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW" (Gal. 3:13).
4. "NOW THAT FAITH HAS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW" (Gal. 3:25).
5. "YOU HAVE BEEN SEVERED FROM CHRIST, YOU WHO ARE SEEKING TO BE JUSTIFIED BY LAW; YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE" (Gal. 5:4).
6. "IF YOU ARE LED BY THE SPIRIT YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW" (Gal. 5:18).
7. "WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS, IT SPEAKS TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW (Jews who are not born again)" (Rom. 3:19).
8. "THOSE WHO ARE CIRCUMCISED [JEWS] DO NOT EVEN KEEP THE LAW THEMSELVES" (Gal. 6:11).
9. "IF RIGHTEOUSNESS COULD BE GAINED THROUGH [KEEPING] THE LAW, CHRIST DIED FOR NOTHING!" (Gal. 2:21).
10. "GENTLES...DO NOT HAVE THE LAW...THEY DO NOT HAVE THE LAW" (Rom. 2:14) (Gentiles never have and never will have the Law.)
11. "NO ONE WILL BE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS IN HIS [GOD'S] SIGHT BY OBSERVING THE LAW" (Rom. 3:20).
12. "SIN SHALL NOT BE YOUR MASTER, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT UNDER LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE [Grace is the God-given desire and power to do His will]" (Rom. 6:14).
13. "WE HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM THE LAW SO THAT WE SERVE IN THE NEW WAY OF THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLD WAY OF THE WRITTEN CODE" (Rom. 7:6).
14. "CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW ... FOR EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES" (Rom. 10:4).
15. THE LAW IS "THE MINISTRY OF DEATH...[AND] CONDEMNATION" (2 Cor. 3:7 & 9).
16. "AVOID FOOLISH CONTROVERSIES AND GENEALOGIES AND STRIFE AND DISPUTES ABOUT THE [MOSAIC] LAW, FOR THEY ARE UNPROFITABLE AND WORTHLESS" (Titus 3:9).
I love Jews. I am a descendent of Abraham and Isaac (Galatians 3:29; 4:28-31). My surname is a Hebrew name and means "house of God." By God's grace I love all my enemies, which we are commanded by Jesus Christ to do. Frequently I receive letters or literature from Messianic Jews and other Christians of similar persuasion trying to get me to keep the Law of Moses. They are sincere, but misled. All false doctrine is the doctrine of demons and to put it bluntly, the spirit is demonic that is influencing these dear brothers and sisters in Christ regarding trying to keep Moses' Law. I have written on this subject before, but in this article I will be brief and to the point with a simple question-and-answer format straight from the Word of God. But first it should be made clear that because Christians are not under the Law but under Grace, this is in no way a license to sin. Indeed, there is an almost total lack of understanding concerning what grace is.
Grace is not mercy. Grace is not overlooking our sins or failures or mistakes. Grace is not merely unmerited favor. Grace is not compassion. So what is grace? Grace is the God-given power and desire to do God's will. Philippians 2:13 says, "It is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure." This is what grace is. Grace is given to the humble, not the proud (James 4:6). If you are trying to be justified by the Law you have been severed from Christ and fallen from grace (Gal. 5:4 NASB)!!!
Christians under the New Covenant have a much higher calling to holiness than did the Old Testament saints under the Law of Moses. Does this sound as though grace is a license to sin? That concept is a perverted straw man that Messianic Jews and others have constructed having been deceived by demonic spirits. One purpose of this demonic deception is to subvert souls saying that you must keep the Law (Acts 15:24 KJV).
Again, we have a higher calling to holiness under the Covenant of Grace. Instead of committing the physical act of adultery to be guilty of that sin under the Law, under the Covenant of Grace you are guilty of adultery if you even look at a woman to lust after her (Mt. 5:28).
Instead of having to physically kill someone to be guilty of murder under the Law, now if you even hate your brother you are guilty of murder (1 Jn. 3:15). Instead of having to bow down to an idol to be guilty of idolatry, now, if you are covetous you are guilty of idolatry (Col. 3:5). More could be cited regarding this, but the point has been made for those with ears to hear.
Under the Old Covenant God's people were given laws that they could not keep because of the sinful nature. They were not given the power to keep the Law, that is, they were not given grace as Christians have under the New Covenant.
The persuasion for Christians to keep the Law does not come from God (Gal. 5:8).
Did Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, and pre-Law Moses, live by the Law or by faith? By faith (Heb. 11:4-30).
Why was the Law given later by Moses and what was the purpose of the Law? "It was added because of transgressions" (Gal. 3:19); "The Law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster" (Gal. 3:24-25).
How long was the Law in effect for God's people who are born-again? "Til the Seed [Jesus] should come to Whom the promise was made" (Gal. 3:19); "Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Rm. 10:4); "The Law and the prophets were until John [the Baptizer]" (Lk. 16:16a); "The Law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (Jn. 1:17).
Are those who are under the works of the Law under a blessing or a curse? "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse" (Gal. 3:10).
Are Jewish Christians under the curse of the Law? No. "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law" (Gal. 3:13).
Is anyone justified by trying to keep the Law? No. "No man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the Law is not of faith" (Gal. 3:11-12).
Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15). Jesus said to keep His commandments, NOT keep the Mosaic Law. There are approximately 180 New Testament commandments.
We are commanded to obey God in these things that are clearly written in the New Testament. If we do not obey these commandments it is irrefutable proof that we do not love Jesus Christ.
Concerning salvation under the New Covenant is there any significance or distinction in being a Jew? No. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:28).
If a person is a Christian is he of Moses' seed or Abraham's seed? "If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Gal. 3:29).
Should we observe feast days, etc. according to the Law? No. "After that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid [for] you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain" (Gal. 4:10-11).
"Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them" (Heb.13:9).
What is the standing of those Christians, including Messianic Jews, who are trying to keep the Law? "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are [trying to be] justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace" (Gal. 5:4).
What is a person's obligation to God if he tries to keep the rituals of the Law such as circumcision (not for health reasons, but to keep the Law)? "If ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised [trying to keep the Law], that he is a debtor to do the whole law" (which no one could ever keep, except Christ, and if you break the Law at one point you are guilty of breaking the whole Law) (Gal. 5:2-3; Jam. 2:10; cf. Rm. 2:25-27).
If we are led by the Holy Spirit are we under the Law? No. "If ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the Law" (Gal. 5:18).
Was the Old Covenant faultless compared to the New Covenant? No. "If that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second" (Heb. 8:7).
Is the New Covenant a better covenant? Yes. Jesus "is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises" (Heb. 8:6).
The apostle Paul, a Jew who was of the tribe of Benjamin, a Pharisee and the son of a Pharisee, said he was not under the Law (1 Cor. 9:20 NIV, NASB), so why do you believe that you are under the Law, if you have been born again?
Paul wrote, "We [Jews who have been born again] have been released from the Law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code" (Rom. 7:6).
Because Christians are not under the Law, does that mean we can do whatever we want to? No. "Sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the [Old Covenant] Law, but under Grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the Law, but under Grace? God forbid" (Rm. 6:14-15).
If we are not to keep the Law, which includes what is commonly referred to as the Ten Commandments, then what did Jesus mean when He said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments?" We are not under the Old Covenant law, but there are approximately 180 New Testament commandments. Jesus did not say if you love me, keep the Law, but rather, if you love me, keep My commandments.
Why do so many Christians, including Messianic Jews, persist in trying to keep the Law, including the Sabbath and the feast days in spite of the clear teachings of the New Testament? Some of the reasons are:
Pride because of a false perception of superiority in being Jewish. Deception by adhering to the false teaching of those who do not understand what grace is. Ignoring the clear teaching concerning the Law, especially in the book of Galatians, chapters three through five. Because of declining spirituality: (when true spirituality declines ritualism increases). And last but not least, because of Christians being demonized by religious demons who want to pervert the truths of God's Word including the truth that Christians have a higher calling under the New Covenant.
If you try to keep part of the Law you are required to keep it all (Gal. 5:3).
QUOTE FROM IGNATIUS, SECOND OR THIRD BISHOP OF ANTIOCH, 117 A.D. (NOTE: This Ignatius was a student of the Apostle John and is not to be confused with those who came later with the same name):
"...To profess Jesus Christ while continuing to follow Jewish customs is an absurdity. The Christian faith does not look to Judaism, but Judaism looks to Christianity..."
Which Messianic Judaism Are We Supposed To Believe?
Posted : 19 Sep, 2012 07:30 AM
So you agree that we do not need the law to be saved? Because what I posted was that the Law does not save us, but we follow it as a sign of our love for God... And as I also posted, failure to follow that law is a sign of disobedience.
Which Messianic Judaism Are We Supposed To Believe?
Posted : 19 Sep, 2012 08:04 AM
Yes I agree that we do not need the law to be saved. What parts of the law do you believe we follow as a sign that we are saved? Surely not the food laws right?
Which Messianic Judaism Are We Supposed To Believe?
Posted : 20 Sep, 2012 07:52 AM
LAW & CROSS
Fact is that absolutely nobody can be saved by the Law for the simple reason that none is able to keep it without trespassing once.
And the penalty for trespassing the Law is death.
So all people, none excluded, deserve as a just (from Justice) punishment for trespassing His Law the death penalty.
Here is where Jesus, His Son, Who was not just coincidently born but promised, propheted and sent, comes in: to save.
Save how?
Not by changing the Law, or annilihating it but by fulfilling the prophecy that there will be a Messiah, a saviour, a healer. One that is worthy to annihilate sin that rests upon man so man becomes worthy to be the presence of G-d.
Meanwhile there is no sign whatsoever that Jesus declares the Law cancelled. On the contrary. On all occasions Jesus confirms the Law, lives by it, and does not break it.
It is just people who think that they can live however they want, throw all their filth and misery at the cross and ride into heaven because there is a man called Jesus.... :zzzz:
MESSIANIC JUDAISM
Messianic Judaism puts Jesus the Messiah into Judaism and there is indeed difference with christianity. A Jew who believes Jesus being the Messiah does not necessarily abide and follow the christian churches (and can you blame them!!)
The one thing they do absolutely not do is simply throw overboard the Old Testament and focus or only read the New Testament as some christians have a strong tendancy to do...
CHRISTIANS
Howbeit, all who believe in Jesus are part of the body of Christ, which is not to be confused with an organization such as a church, but which is an (living) organism with Jesus as its head. Seeing it like this, I notice the difference between the heart and the toe and the skin and the eye.... but all have their function and place yet only with Jesus as head they can be of service to the body.
