Author	Thread: How does man's faith rob God of glory?
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	How does man's faith rob God of glory? Posted : 6 Dec, 2012 08:28 AM Some say that faith before regeneration robs God of glory. The belief goes this way: God ordained that men must by faith come to Him and He will regenerate them, but some say this robs God of glory. But if this idea claims it is God who has ordained it, how can it rob Him of glory? How can anything that God ordained rob Him of glory? So, the next argument to that might be stated: "We know God did not ordain it because He would not ordain something that robbed Him of Glory". Which raises the next question: Why assume it is robbery? And if that assumption has no basis in the bible, then possibly it's a poor assumption. So, lacking any scripture saying that faith before regeneration robs God, what is there about having faith that makes us conclude that God is robbed? What does it take from God? What does faith add to Christ's sacrifice? Is there a logical or scriptural answer saying "faith robs God of glory" or "Faith earns salvation"? Romans 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving GLORY to God. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	How does man's faith rob God of glory? Posted : 6 Dec, 2012 08:43 AM To clarify, it would not at all rob God of his glory if this was God's plan. So you are making an argument against an argument that isn't being made. Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	How does man's faith rob God of glory? Posted : 6 Dec, 2012 01:52 PM The question was meant to be that even if it WASN'T God's plan(even though I believe it is), I would like to see the evidence that faith robs God of glory. I'm looking especially for biblical evidence, but I'd like to hear any logical arguments as well. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	How does man's faith rob God of glory? Posted : 6 Dec, 2012 05:33 PM God does not merely offer salvation to sinners. God is not sitting in Heaven waiting for sinners to wake themselves up and realize who He is, respond to the offer of eternal life, and accept Jesus into their hearts. [8] For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV) Someone will say, �Well there it is! Paul says it is the gift of God. God offers us a gift, and all we have to do is untie the bow, open the box, and take it.� Beloved, it is not a gift offered. It is a gift given. A gift granted. A gift bestowed upon us so that we have nothing in which to boast. We didn't even open the box! We contribute nothing whatsoever to our own salvation. God does it all. But also, God does not simply offer salvation and ask sinners to repent. On the contrary, God COMMANDS all men everywhere to repent of their sins. It�s not a request, and it�s not just a good idea. It is a command. It is an imperative. God has issued an order, an ultimatum to the entire human race: Repent and follow Jesus Christ, or face the final day of judgment without a savior. Listen to how Jesus explains this: [18] Now when Jesus saw a crowd around him, he gave orders to go over to the other side. [19] And a scribe came up and said to him, �Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.� [20] And Jesus said to him, �Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.� [21] Another of the disciples said to him, �Lord, let me first go and bury my father.� [22] And Jesus said to him, �Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead.� (Matthew 8:18-22 ESV) You notice that when these men express a desire to follow the Lord Jesus, He does not say to these men, �That�s great! I�m so happy you�ve made the decision to follow Me. Come on!� No, in essence He says, �Do you know what you are asking? What is it worth to you to follow Me? It will cost you to be My disciple. Are you willing to pay the price to be my disciple?� On another occasion, Jesus said: [24] �. . . If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. [25] For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. [26] For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? [27] For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. (Matthew 16:24-27 ESV) What is eternal life worth? What does it cost to have one�s sins forgiven by Christ? What is God worth? What is entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven worth? What is your soul worth? A rich young man came to Jesus one day and asked Him what he needed to do in order to inherit eternal life. After revealing the man�s self-righteousness because he thought he had kept all the commandments, Jesus finally said to him, [21] �. . . If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.� [22] When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. (Matthew 19:21-22 ESV) What is Jesus saying in these situations? Why is He making it so hard for people to follow Him? Who wants to �take up his cross and follow Jesus�? Anybody? Would a rich man be willing to sell all in order to follow Christ? Well, it depends on what you think God and eternal life are worth. It depends upon how much praise and glory you think your Savior deserves. Post Reply
View Profile History	How does man's faith rob God of glory? Posted : 6 Dec, 2012 05:36 PM All faith in God is pleasing in His sight. Post Reply
View Profile History	How does man's faith rob God of glory? Posted : 7 Dec, 2012 05:22 AM So you think no glory is taken from God is His plan isn't accomplished? Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	How does man's faith rob God of glory? Posted : 7 Dec, 2012 06:54 AM "So you think no glory is taken from God if His plan isn't accomplished?" No, and I'm kind of confused, because if you believe God "prepares" vessels for destruction for his glory anyway, then a person not believing God would mean he exercises his justice for his glory as well. So I don't see the difference, even with free will in the equation. The people He knows will believe, do believe, and the people that He knows won't believe, don't believe, so His plan is unaffected. I don't want to get too far from the question though. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	How does man's faith rob God of glory? Posted : 7 Dec, 2012 07:09 AM Right....my view is God accomplishes that plan. You're asking how does God's plan failing take glory away. I believe that's rather obvious. I never claimed that God doesn't get glory for His judgment either, as that much is clear from scripture. Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	How does man's faith rob God of glory? Posted : 7 Dec, 2012 07:18 AM What do you mean by "God's plan failing"? I don't believe it is failing. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	How does man's faith rob God of glory? Posted : 7 Dec, 2012 07:26 AM Yes, but you and I have different ideas of what God's plan is. So when you asked how man's faith rob's God's glory....If God set it up so that only those He chooses comes...yet somehow some men make it on their own...then yes God has failed and that would take glory from Him. Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	How does man's faith rob God of glory? Posted : 7 Dec, 2012 08:05 AM Ah, I see. But do you have a verse that says that "believing" or "having faith" robs God of his glory? Romans 10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" 1 Corinthians 1 "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe" :peace::peace: Post Reply

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