Author Thread: Pride is a Terrible Thing!
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Pride is a Terrible Thing!
Posted : 26 Sep, 2013 07:33 PM

Here is just a tiny partial list of Reformed/Calvinist men of God. These men span five centuries, represent several different denominations, and come from many different countries. These men were scholars, theologians, pastors, professors, writers, and so on. Their scholarships consists of millions of hours of study, hundreds of thousands of pages of published works including whole Bible commentaries, and tens of thousands of sermons preached and lectures given. Many spoke multiple languages including Greek, Latin, Hebrew, etc. Many earned masters and doctorate degrees. These are some of the greatest men that God has ever given to the church for the purpose of instruction and edification.



What is the consistent theme among all of these men? They all believed the Bible and the doctrines of grace (a.k.a. Calvinism, Reformed theology, T.U.L.I.P)



Now one can humble themselves and learn from others in the body of Christ who have come before them or one can continue on in pride believing that they somehow know more than all of these men of God combined.



The arguments that oppose these Reformed/Calvinist men here on the CDFF Biblical forum come from a group who between them do not have a single pastoral credential or earned degree in the study of theology. They have a demonstrated inability to comprehend what they have read. They often express themselves with fragmentary or incomplete sentences or unintelligible statements. In addition, their comments include many obvious spelling and grammar errors. Yet, they still believe they know better. It's interesting, isn't it?



Some well known Reformers

Martin Bucer

John Knox

Theodore Beza

Heinrich Bullinger

John Calvin

Pierre Viret

Martin Luther

Ulrich Zwingli

Phillip Melanchthon

Peter Martyr Vermigli

Jerome Zanchi



An extended list of Reformers

J.H. Alsted

William Ames

Benedict Aretius

Petrus Boquinus

Guido de Bres

Guillaume Bucanus

Wolfgang Capito

Thomas Cartwright

Martin Chemnitz

Thomas Cranmer

Lambert Daneau

John Davenant

Pierre Du Moulin

Will Farel

Dudley Fenner

William Fulke

Berthold Haller

Andreas Hyperius

John Jewell

Leo Jud

Franciscus Junius

Bartholomaus Keckerman

Jan a' Lasco

Johannes Maccovius

Wolfgang Musculus

Johannes Oecolampadius

Caspar Olevian

David Pareaus

William Perkins

Johannes Piscator

Amandus Polanus

Johann Polyander

John Preston

Andreas Rivet

Robert Rollock

Lucas Trelcatius

Zacharia Ursinus

Antonius Walaeus

Francis Turretin



Just a small sampling of Puritans -- there are dozens more.

Thomas Manton

William Ames

Jeremiah Burroughs

John Cotton

Cotton Mather

John Owen

John Flavel

Richard Baxter

Thomas Watson

Matthew Henry

Matthew Poole

Stephen Charnock

Thomas Boston

John Brown



Some Revivalists and Some Baptists

Jonathan Edwards

John Gill

C.H. Spurgeon

Arthur Pink

Augustus Toplady

George Whitefield

W.G.T. Shedd



Other Well- Known Calvinist Theologians and Philosophers Including the Princetonians.

Herman Bavinck

Abraham Kuyper

Herman Dooyeweerd

Andrew Bonar

Horatius Bonar

Archibald Alexander

Charles Hodge

A. A. Hodge

B. B. Warfield

Geerhardus Vos

J. Gresham Machen

Cornelius Van Til

Oswald T. Allis

Robert Wilson

John Murray

Gordon Clark

Louis Berkhof

Anthony A. Hoekema

Herman Hoeksema

Martin Llyod Jones

Francis Schaeffer

R.J. Rushdoony

Greg Bahnsen

Francis Nigel Lee



This list does not even include the modern scholars/theologians such as Sproule, Packer, Cheung, Piper, Reymond, Grudem, White, North, DeMar, Gentry, Frame, Clowney, Poythress, and so on and on.

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Pride is a Terrible Thing!
Posted : 26 Sep, 2013 07:39 PM

My apologies to Dr. Sproul for adding an "e" to the end of his name. :laugh:

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mcubed

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Pride is a Terrible Thing!
Posted : 26 Sep, 2013 08:02 PM

Excellent point!!!!!!

Martin Luther the 95th This:



95 Theses Martin Luther nailed on the church door at Wittenburg.

OCTOBER 31, 1517

Out of love for the truth and the desire to bring it to light, the following propositions will be discussed at Wittenberg, under the presidency of the Reverend Father Martin Luther, Master of Arts and of Sacred Theology, and Lecturer in Ordinary on the same at that place. Wherefore he requests that those who are unable to be present and debate orally with us, may do so by letter.

In the Name our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

1. When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said, "Repent" ( Matthew 4:17 ), he willed the entire life of believers to be one of repentance.

2. This word cannot be understood as referring to the sacrament of penance, that is, confession and satisfaction, as administered by the clergy.

3. Yet it does not mean solely inner repentance; such inner repentance is worthless unless it produces various outward mortification of the flesh.

4. The penalty of sin remains as long as the hatred of self (that is, true inner repentance), namely till our entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

5. The pope neither desires nor is able to remit any penalties except those imposed by his own authority or that of the canons.

6. The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring and showing that it has been remitted by God; or, to be sure, by remitting guilt in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in these cases were disregarded, the guilt would certainly remain unforgiven.

7. God remits guilt to no one unless at the same time he humbles him in all things and makes him submissive to the vicar, the priest.

8. The penitential canons are imposed only on the living, and, according to the canons themselves, nothing should be imposed on the dying.

9. Therefore the Holy Spirit through the pope is kind to us insofar as the pope in his decrees always makes exception of the article of death and of necessity.

10. Those priests act ignorantly and wickedly who, in the case of the dying, reserve canonical penalties for purgatory.

11. Those tares of changing the canonical penalty to the penalty of purgatory were evidently sown while the bishops slept ( Matthew 13:25 ).

12. In former times canonical penalties were imposed, not after, but before absolution, as tests of true contrition.

13. The dying are freed by death from all penalties, are already dead as far as the canon laws are concerned, and have a right to be released from them.

14. Imperfect piety or love on the part of the dying person necessarily brings with it great fear; and the smaller the love, the greater the fear.

15. This fear or horror is sufficient in itself, to say nothing of other things, to constitute the penalty of purgatory, since it is very near to the horror of despair.

16. Hell, purgatory, and heaven seem to differ the same as despair, fear, and assurance of salvation.

17. It seems as though for the souls in purgatory fear should necessarily decrease and love increase.

18. Furthermore, it does not seem proved, either by reason or by Scripture, that souls in purgatory are outside the state of merit, that is, unable to grow in love.

19. Nor does it seem proved that souls in purgatory, at least not all of them, are certain and assured of their own salvation, even if we ourselves may be entirely certain of it.

20. Therefore the pope, when he uses the words "plenary remission of all penalties," does not actually mean "all penalties," but only those imposed by himself.

21. Thus those indulgence preachers are in error who say that a man is absolved from every penalty and saved by papal indulgences.

22. As a matter of fact, the pope remits to souls in purgatory no penalty which, according to canon law, they should have paid in this life.

23. If remission of all penalties whatsoever could be granted to anyone at all, certainly it would be granted only to the most perfect, that is, to very few.

24. For this reason most people are necessarily deceived by that indiscriminate and high-sounding promise of release from penalty.

25. That power which the pope has in general over purgatory corresponds to the power which any bishop or curate has in a particular way in his own diocese and parish.

26. The pope does very well when he grants remission to souls in purgatory, not by the power of the keys, which he does not have, but by way of intercession for them.

27. They preach only human doctrines who say that as soon as the money clinks into the money chest, the soul flies out of purgatory.

28. It is certain that when money clinks in the money chest, greed and avarice can be increased; but when the church intercedes, the result is in the hands of God alone.

29. Who knows whether all souls in purgatory wish to be redeemed, since we have exceptions in St. Severinus and St. Paschal, as related in a legend.

30. No one is sure of the integrity of his own contrition, much less of having received plenary remission.

31. The man who actually buys indulgences is as rare as he who is really penitent; indeed, he is exceedingly rare.

32. Those who believe that they can be certain of their salvation because they have indulgence letters will be eternally damned, together with their teachers.

33. Men must especially be on guard against those who say that the pope's pardons are that inestimable gift of God by which man is reconciled to him.

34. For the graces of indulgences are concerned only with the penalties of sacramental satisfaction established by man.

35. They who teach that contrition is not necessary on the part of those who intend to buy souls out of purgatory or to buy confessional privileges preach unchristian doctrine.

36. Any truly repentant Christian has a right to full remission of penalty and guilt, even without indulgence letters.

37. Any true Christian, whether living or dead, participates in all the blessings of Christ and the church; and this is granted him by God, even without indulgence letters.

38. Nevertheless, papal remission and blessing are by no means to be disregarded, for they are, as I have said (Thesis 6), the proclamation of the divine remission.

39. It is very difficult, even for the most learned theologians, at one and the same time to commend to the people the bounty of indulgences and the need of true contrition.

40. A Christian who is truly contrite seeks and loves to pay penalties for his sins; the bounty of indulgences, however, relaxes penalties and causes men to hate them -- at least it furnishes occasion for hating them.

41. Papal indulgences must be preached with caution, lest people erroneously think that they are preferable to other good works of love.

42. Christians are to be taught that the pope does not intend that the buying of indulgences should in any way be compared with works of mercy.

43. Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better deed than he who buys indulgences.

44. Because love grows by works of love, man thereby becomes better. Man does not, however, become better by means of indulgences but is merely freed from penalties.

45. Christians are to be taught that he who sees a needy man and passes him by, yet gives his money for indulgences, does not buy papal indulgences but God's wrath.

46. Christians are to be taught that, unless they have more than they need, they must reserve enough for their family needs and by no means squander it on indulgences.

47. Christians are to be taught that they buying of indulgences is a matter of free choice, not commanded.

48. Christians are to be taught that the pope, in granting indulgences, needs and thus desires their devout prayer more than their money.

49. Christians are to be taught that papal indulgences are useful only if they do not put their trust in them, but very harmful if they lose their fear of God because of them.

50. Christians are to be taught that if the pope knew the exactions of the indulgence preachers, he would rather that the basilica of St. Peter were burned to ashes than built up with the skin, flesh, and bones of his sheep.

51. Christians are to be taught that the pope would and should wish to give of his own money, even though he had to sell the basilica of St. Peter, to many of those from whom certain hawkers of indulgences cajole money.

52. It is vain to trust in salvation by indulgence letters, even though the indulgence commissary, or even the pope, were to offer his soul as security.

53. They are the enemies of Christ and the pope who forbid altogether the preaching of the Word of God in some churches in order that indulgences may be preached in others.

54. Injury is done to the Word of God when, in the same sermon, an equal or larger amount of time is devoted to indulgences than to the Word.

55. It is certainly the pope's sentiment that if indulgences, which are a very insignificant thing, are celebrated with one bell, one procession, and one ceremony, then the gospel, which is the very greatest thing, should be preached with a hundred bells, a hundred processions, a hundred ceremonies.

56. The true treasures of the church, out of which the pope distributes indulgences, are not sufficiently discussed or known among the people of Christ.

57. That indulgences are not temporal treasures is certainly clear, for many indulgence sellers do not distribute them freely but only gather them.

58. Nor are they the merits of Christ and the saints, for, even without the pope, the latter always work grace for the inner man, and the cross, death, and hell for the outer man.

59. St. Lawrence said that the poor of the church were the treasures of the church, but he spoke according to the usage of the word in his own time.

60. Without want of consideration we say that the keys of the church, given by the merits of Christ, are that treasure.

61. For it is clear that the pope's power is of itself sufficient for the remission of penalties and cases reserved by himself.

62. The true treasure of the church is the most holy gospel of the glory and grace of God.

63. But this treasure is naturally most odious, for it makes the first to be last ( Matthew 20:16 ).

64. On the other hand, the treasure of indulgences is naturally most acceptable, for it makes the last to be first.

65. Therefore the treasures of the gospel are nets with which one formerly fished for men of wealth.

66. The treasures of indulgences are nets with which one now fishes for the wealth of men.

67. The indulgences which the demagogues acclaim as the greatest graces are actually understood to be such only insofar as they promote gain.

68. They are nevertheless in truth the most insignificant graces when compared with the grace of God and the piety of the cross.

69. Bishops and curates are bound to admit the commissaries of papal indulgences with all reverence.

70. But they are much more bound to strain their eyes and ears lest these men preach their own dreams instead of what the pope has commissioned.

71. Let him who speaks against the truth concerning papal indulgences be anathema and accursed.

72. But let him who guards against the lust and license of the indulgence preachers be blessed.

73. Just as the pope justly thunders against those who by any means whatever contrive harm to the sale of indulgences.

74. Much more does he intend to thunder against those who use indulgences as a pretext to contrive harm to holy love and truth.

75. To consider papal indulgences so great that they could absolve a man even if he had done the impossible and had violated the mother of God is madness.

76. We say on the contrary that papal indulgences cannot remove the very least of venial sins as far as guilt is concerned.

77. To say that even St. Peter if he were now pope, could not grant greater graces is blasphemy against St. Peter and the pope.

78. We say on the contrary that even the present pope, or any pope whatsoever, has greater graces at his disposal, that is, the gospel,spiritual powers, gifts of healing, etc., as it is written, 1 Corinthians 12:28 ).

79. To say that the cross emblazoned with the papal coat of arms, and set up by the indulgence preachers is equal in worth to the cross of Christ is blasphemy.

80. The bishops, curates, and theologians who permit such talk to be spread among the people will have to answer for this.

81. This unbridled preaching of indulgences makes it difficult even for learned men to rescue the reverence which is due the pope from slander or from the shrewd questions of the laity.

82. Such as: "Why does not the pope empty purgatory for the sake of holy love and the dire need of the souls that are there if he redeems an infinite number of souls for the sake of miserable money with which to build a church? The former reason would be most just; the latter is most trivial.

83. Again, "Why are funeral and anniversary masses for the dead continued and why does he not return or permit the withdrawal of the endowments founded for them, since it is wrong to pray for the redeemed?"

84. Again, "What is this new piety of God and the pope that for a consideration of money they permit a man who is impious and their enemy to buy out of purgatory the pious soul of a friend of God and do not rather, because of the need of that pious and beloved soul, free it for pure love's sake?"

85. Again, "Why are the penitential canons, long since abrogated and dead in actual fact and through disuse, now satisfied by the granting of indulgences as though they were still alive and in force?"

86. Again, "Why does not the pope, whose wealth is today greater than the wealth of the richest Crassus, build this one basilica of St. Peter with his own money rather than with the money of poor believers?"

87. Again, "What does the pope remit or grant to those who by perfect contrition already have a right to full remission and blessings?"

88. Again, "What greater blessing could come to the church than if the pope were to bestow these remissions and blessings on every believer a hundred times a day, as he now does but once?"

89. "Since the pope seeks the salvation of souls rather than money by his indulgences, why does he suspend the indulgences and pardons previously granted when they have equal efficacy?"

90. To repress these very sharp arguments of the laity by force alone, and not to resolve them by giving reasons, is to expose the church and the pope to the ridicule of their enemies and to make Christians unhappy.

91. If, therefore, indulgences were preached according to the spirit and intention of the pope, all these doubts would be readily resolved. Indeed, they would not exist.

92. Away, then, with all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, "Peace, peace," and there is no peace! ( Jeremiah 6:14 )

93. Blessed be all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, "Cross, cross," and there is no cross!

94. Christians should be exhorted to be diligent in following Christ, their Head, through penalties, death and hell.

95. And thus be confident of entering into heaven through many tribulations rather than through the false security of peace ( Acts 14:22 ).





He got it right salvation is by faith. What does that mean?



Faith is a gift from God, and with that faith we can say yes to God or no to God. Some of our choices grieve Him and others please Him, and He will respond to us accordingly. The Bible explicitly states this from Genesis to Revelation. And Paul states plainly in Romans 4:16 that if salvation is by faith, it is not by works. So, God alone gets the glory as Savior, since in a trillion lifetimes, we could never save ourselves, but it is those who receive His grace that will be saved. As a result, on that day (and in every day up to that point as believers), we will glory in the Lord alone.

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Pride is a Terrible Thing!
Posted : 27 Sep, 2013 04:23 AM

So all of the so called christian's who are scientist and teach evelution we should follow them also?



Does an education make one right all of the time?



Of course not.....it would be silly to say so wouldnt it?



Because you know as I do that their are educated individuals that you would dissagree with also, Isnt that right IWA?

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Pride is a Terrible Thing!
Posted : 27 Sep, 2013 04:24 AM

Worthy attempt at manipulation again though........



Good job!!!

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dljrn04

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Pride is a Terrible Thing!
Posted : 27 Sep, 2013 08:52 AM

:yay:



Pride goes before the fall. Excellent work IWA.

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Pride is a Terrible Thing!
Posted : 27 Sep, 2013 11:10 AM

It's pretty clear, isn't it D.? I mean it really speaks for itself when you see even this partial list of names.

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DontHitThatMark

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Pride is a Terrible Thing!
Posted : 27 Sep, 2013 11:56 AM

"But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty"



"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach. Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity."



Honestly, by this list it sounds a bit like you're putting more of your faith in men than in God and His word. I maintain, no human, even if they have a million hours of study under their belt, can convict me against my conscience to turn away from the truth I've learned from my allegedly poor and inexperienced personal bible study. I'm sure that if you combined all the hours of study by the "pious" men who opposed Martin Luther, you would also have a mountain of "experience" and "education". Catholicism commands almost 1/5 of the entire world's current population, I'm sure there are billions of hours of study by the Roman Catholic Church throughout history, I don't see you supporting them, so I have to say your point is moot.



"Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen. And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake. Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God. And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council, And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law ... Then said the high priest, Are these things so? And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken ... Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep."



One lowly deacon against a mighty council of Rabbis and Priests and "educated" men. Pastoral credentials or earned degrees or the number of supporting voices amount to absolutely nothing. In fact, I would say that the more people there are following a certain doctrine or teaching, the more likely it is that it's incorrect in some way. The whole world wanders after the false christ/false prophet/the beast, there will be many that think they're following God, but Jesus will say He never knew them. Wide is the gate that leads to destruction and there are many that enter by that way, only a relative few enter the straight and narrow. So, I'd warn you and everybody else to keep your spirituality between your own conscience and God's word.



How many degrees did Peter have?



:peace::peace:

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Pride is a Terrible Thing!
Posted : 27 Sep, 2013 12:50 PM

Lord Jesus how many times have you put the word of man, before you and your word.

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Pride is a Terrible Thing!
Posted : 28 Sep, 2013 09:23 PM

He hasn't TC...



Topic - Pride is a Terrible Thing!



*** YUP!!!...It sure is... X <>< O

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Pride is a Terrible Thing!
Posted : 29 Sep, 2013 05:08 AM

Isnt it right IWA? That their are bible teachers with degrees and hours of study that you would dissagree with?



Lets see if he answers this simple question or avoids it.

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