Author Thread: please tell me what this scripture means???
hedgedweller

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please tell me what this scripture means???
Posted : 28 Jul, 2008 04:03 AM

please tell me what this scripture means??? I'm totally open to hear all opinions and revelations,,,,???





Romans 7:13 Wherefore is that which is good

( MADE DEATH in ME ), God forbid,

( B U T ) that ( SIN MIGHT APPEAR SIN ) by ( WORKING DEATH in ME ) by. that which is good, (( that sin by the comandment might become exceedingly sinful)).

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Deborahe

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please tell me what this scripture means???
Posted : 28 Jul, 2008 09:42 AM

Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin,working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.



This is what I get from the verse: Was the law given,and because of man's sinful nature and inability to abide by the law mean he was doomed to continue in sin and never please God ? Of course not! Before Jesus came, the hearts of God's people got so hardened by sin they couldn't tell the difference between right and wrong. God had to spell it out for them. The law showed what sin looked like through God's eyes. Sin had to appear sin.We know the wages of sin is death.

I desire and welcome a deeper revelation of what Paul meant in this scripture. Seeking God on this one !

God Bless,

Deborah

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please tell me what this scripture means???
Posted : 28 Jul, 2008 11:27 AM

To understand this verse we have to grasp what Paul�s words in Romans 7:7-13 are intended to convince the reader about. As we study Paul�s words, pay special attention to those things which show us the beauty of the Law and those which show us the ugliness of sin.



Explaining Romans 7:7-13:

�Is the Law sin?� he asks. Answer: �May it never be!� But the objector goes on: �Paul, look what you say in verses 9 and 10. You say, �I was once alive apart from the Law [that is, he once had little or no consciousness of sin or condemnation or slavery; he just did what he felt like doing; it seemed like freedom and felt like being alive]; but when the commandment came [perhaps as a child or an adolescent waking up from the obliviousness and freedom of self-centeredness; or perhaps at his conversion seeing for the first time the true nature of his spiritual deadness], sin became alive [that is, he experienced sin as sin and the rebellion it really was] and I died [he experienced subjectively the objective reality of his true hopeless condition of slavery to sin, spiritual death]; and this commandment, which was to result in life [the commandments pointed to life, offered life, and couldn�t give life � too weak and too powerless], proved to result in death for me.�



�There, you see, Paul, you said it again. You said that God�s commandment killed you. You make a murderer out of the Law. You make the Law sin.� So Paul continues to explain his meaning in verse 11. �No,� he says in essence, �what I mean is this. When I say that the commandment became death for me, I mean, �Sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.� Sin killed me. Sin brought about my deadly condemnation. Sin brought about my experience of spiritual doom. Sin used the commandment of God as the weapon, but sin is the killer.� So he concludes in verse 12: �So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.�



And in verse 13 he repeats in the strongest language possible that sin, not the commandment, killed him. �Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.� This is verse 11 all over again: �Sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.�



Picture the Law as a surgeon�s scalpel. It is meant for life and healing. And here comes sin and takes the scalpel of God�s commandments and slashes people�s throats with it. It reminds me of the line in one of Michael Card�s songs � the words to Judas: �That�s not what a kiss is for.� The commandment � holy, just, good � was to be life to me, and it became death for me, because sin took the scalpel out of the surgeon�s hand and with it slashed my throat and killed me (verse 10). That is not what a scalpel is for.



Why would God allow this? Paul answers at the end of verse 13: �so that through the commandment sin would become utterly [=exceedingly, immeasurably] sinful.� It is sinful to murder; it is doubly sinful to force innocent people to help you murder. It is sinful to poison a child; it is doubly sinful to trick a mother into giving the poison to her own child. You don�t boil a baby goat in its mother�s milk. That is not what a mother�s milk is for. It is for life, not death. It is sinful to break God�s Law; it is doubly sinful to use God�s Law to break God�s Law.



So the bottom line so far in Romans 7 is that the reason we need to die to the Law is not because the Law is sin, but because the Law is weak and vulnerable, and we are utterly sinful. Therefore, the Law cannot be the first and decisive means of our justification or our sanctification, because �when the commandment comes� our sin rises up, comes alive, and uses the commandment to kill us, not save us.



How does sin do that? Verse 11 gives the key word to explain how sin does this killing work through the commandments. �Sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.� Sin uses the commandments to deceive us. Sin is fundamentally a liar. Sin kills by deceit and superficial logic. It says things like: �You�re tired. You need a good night�s rest. But you are tense and can�t sleep. A sleeping pill might help. The instructions hold out hope for pretty good rest if you take a pill. Wouldn�t you really like one really wonderful night�s sleep, a hundred times better than average? Yes? Well then, take a hundred pills.� Sin is a murderer, and it murders by making promises it cannot keep.



If you are perishing under the guilt and power of sin, it is because you are being deceived. Sin is lying to you, and you are believing it. Sin is making promises to you that it cannot keep and you are trusting in these promises.



But, you say, how does sin do that with the Law? What deception does sin use when the commandment comes? Verse 11 says, �Sin, taking opportunity through the commandment deceived me.� What lie � what tricky half-truth � does sin speak, when it meets the commandment of God? I think the deception of sin when it meets God�s commandments can be boiled down into two basic lies. They sound almost like opposites; but they are, at the root, the same.



On the one hand, sin might say when it meets the commandments of God: �You can�t keep these commandments, and you wouldn�t want to if you could. And so there is no hope for you if there is a holy God, and you may as well put all that out of your head and get as much pleasure in this life as you can.�



Or, on the other hand, sin might say when it meets the commandments: �You can keep these. So muster all your willpower and show yourself as good as the next guy to get ready for the judgment.�



In other words, sin takes the Law in hand and kills us with one of two kinds of deception about our future. It either offers hopelessness relieved by self-indulgence, or it offers hopefulness supported by self-righteousness. One by telling you that you can�t keep the commandments and so you should be hopeless. The other by telling you that you can and so you should be hopeful. They are both lies. And to believe either of them is suicide.



What is the remedy? Die to the Law and live to God through the crucified and risen Christ. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the remedy. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes (Romans 1:16). It is the only message in the world that gives hope to both the ungodly self-indulgent and the ungodly self-righteous.



It says to the hopeless self-indulgent, there is hope for you, because, though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow, because God will forgive you for Christ�s sake, if you will receive him as a treasured gift and trust him.



And the gospel says to the hopeful self-righteous, there is true hope for you, because, though your righteousness be as filthy rags, the perfect obedience of Jesus will be credited to your account, if you will receive him as a treasured gift and trust him.



So I bring you good news today, whether you are hopeless and self-indulgent or you are hopeful and self-righteous. Jesus lived and died for both kinds of sinners. Believe in him today. Trust him as God�s provision for your salvation. Receive him as the treasure of your life.



Stay blessed in the Lord

Will

:peace:

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SJC1985

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please tell me what this scripture means???
Posted : 29 Jul, 2008 01:27 PM

Romans 7:13



Doing what is right illuminates the sin that is the opposite of the righteous act. For example, true Christians who are close to God, show that they have "died to the sin of lying" by telling the truth, even if it costs financially and/or emotionally.



A friend of mine said lately, "Oh, the rental company will not even notice the scratches that you put on the rental car! I wouldn't say anything to them about those scratches." I am far from perfect, but, with God's help, I do try to be honest about everything. Knowing that I would most likely have to pay my insurance deductible of $500, I wrote a note to leave with the key in the "night drop". I told the truth about backing into a metal sign that I did not see in the side mirror.



It is my prayer that my son, and others who withhold the truth, will realize how important it is to our Christian witness that we tell the truth about everything. This is letting God's light shine through the darkness of the sin of lying. "Thou shalt not still" is closely related to lying, since anyone who lies is stealing the truth. :glow:

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Deborahe

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please tell me what this scripture means???
Posted : 29 Jul, 2008 02:34 PM

Thanks, Will,

You helped me have a better understanding of what Paul meant.

God Bless You All,

Deborah

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SJC1985

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please tell me what this scripture means???
Posted : 31 Jul, 2008 06:55 PM

Did you get a chance to read my answer? Do you agree? Any new thoughts that you have in addition to mine?



:glow:

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please tell me what this scripture means???
Posted : 31 Jul, 2008 07:52 PM

Well, I'll just keep riding the merry-go-round on this one because I'm still going around in circles....:excited:

Happy forum time, everyone!



strawberi50

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Deborahe

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please tell me what this scripture means???
Posted : 1 Aug, 2008 08:30 AM

God Bless You, Strawberi ! You always bring a smile:glow:

Just hang in there and don't get dizzy:toomuch:

This verse standing alone, I agree, is mind boggling; but when the whole chapter is read, the meaning becomes clearer.Nothing hid that won't be revealed. God will get you off that merry- go- round in due time:angel:

Sister in Christ,

Deborah

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hedgedweller

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please tell me what this scripture means???
Posted : 2 Aug, 2008 06:51 AM

i am running and have just read your post,, please give me this weekend and i will respond,,,, god bless all,,,



Bruce,,,,,but you must read at your own risk,,WHY????



I promise you are fixing to read something that you have never heard before,,, yet when you read it there will be so many scriptures that will bare witness,,,, this revelation will not stand by its self,,, there will be many witnesses of it in the bible,,,,, no commentary and i have read them all on romans 7:13 has ever been able to half way tell what is being said here,,,, i think you will find it very interesting,,,



god bless all who participate,,,,, Bruce

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hedgedweller

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please tell me what this scripture means???
Posted : 2 Aug, 2008 09:07 AM

Ok here goes,3 things,, death, hell and the grave,,, Paul is talking about death not the grave or hell when he said (( working death in you)). The grave is where our bodies go but death is different. Death means seperation from God and to experience the second death is the ultimate death of all.

The original hebrew means seperated from God

Now lets look at the Romans7:13 Romans 7:13 Wherefore is that which is good ( MADE DEATH in ME ), God forbid,

( B U T ) that ( SIN MIGHT APPEAR SIN ) ( WORKING DEATH in ME ) by. that which is good, (( that sin by the comandment might become exceedingly sinful)).



tHE WORD SAY IT IS NOT MADE DEATH,,, BUT,,,IT IS WORKING DEATH IN YOU,,,,,TOTALLY WOW, WOW, WOW, On the surface it wouldnt seem that the word ( MADE ) would have any significant meaning in the verse until Paul came right back and used the word ( WORKING ) and applied it to the same adjective. These two words set in motion the confusion of the verse and causes many to read over it. Lets look at the differences before we go any futher.



1st the word ( MADE) greek pronounciation, (ginomia).The Original Greek verb indicates (completion, done or finished )state of being.When something is made it means it is a finished product, otherwise it is not made yet. Like,(( I just made this, I completed it, I finished it, its done, theres nothing left to do, its made.)). If you are still working on something its not made yet. This is the exact illustration Paul was using. God didnt send the law so that it would be (( made death, completed, finished in you), but that it would bring us to christ. The word said the law is the school master that brought us to christ. So while it is not made death in you it is (( working death in you )). It seems confusing or contradictory but after examining it more closely it becomes very clear. The word ( Working ) in the greek again is a verb, Katergazomia, means ( to bring about, to fashion, to do that which something results, to result in). Left alone or unattended too the (Working of Death) would eventually become (Made) (Death), this is very clear.You can only work on sonething so long.



So (( it is not made death in me,,,, but,,,, it is working death in me ))



Stop here or read at your own risk. You are fixing to hear something you have never heard before, i promise that.

The WORKING of DEATH IN ME is accomplishing something very unique.



Romans 7:13 BUT that (( Sin might appear sin )) (( working death in me )). Wow, what did Paul just say? The appearance of sin is brought about by the working of death. Again the word ( work) means , to do that which something results from, to bring about. to result in. Here we see one of the most important declarations in the bible. The working of death is bringing about a conscienciness of sin. The results of this working death is allowing sin to appear to be sin.



by that which is good ( the comandment) ((that sin by the comandment might become exceeding sinful))





Romans 7:13 Wherefore is that which is good ( M A D E ) ( D E A T H in M E ), God forbid,

( B U T ) that ( SIN MIGHT APPEAR SIN ) ( WORKING DEATH in ME ) by that which is good, (( that sin by the comandment might become exceedingly sinful)). Remember the law is now written in our hearts Hebrews 8:10 and 10:16 and God placed them in our mind. What the natural law did in the old testament the new kingdom law of God is now written and being done in our hearts and mind.



Esther, I really don't want to tell you this in a email for fear it will be misunderstood but I will risk that happenning.



The working of death is what is going on in our hearts when we feel conviction. This is the most profound thing that God has ever showed me. It is the working of death that reveals we are lost or in sin as stated in

Romans 7:13 ( M A D E ) ( D E A T H in M E ), God forbid, ( B U T ) that ( SIN MIGHT APPEAR SIN ) ( WORKING DEATH in ME ) . We call this conviction but God refer's to this as the working of death. In John 3:20-21 it says," those that are evil don't come to the light lest there deeds should be reproved, but he that doeth truth cometh to the light that his deeds might become manifest. You can easily see that The light is what manifest or brings to surface our evil deeds or sins. Its light not darkness. Yes, I know it is the spirit of God that convicts us but how does God do this,,,God cannot look upon sin or have fellowship with sin so God has written his spiritual kingdom law in our hearts and mind, this is his new convenant with us. And by the working of death in you it is causing your sin appear to be sin. It becomes exceedingly sinful. In the original greek the preface is on the word ((working )). There is something taking place in us that people understand is conviction and that something is the working of death.



The word conviction is not in the bible. We often say God has convicted me of this or convicted me of that. What we are calling conviction is none other than the working of death we are feeling. We always say conviction makes you feel as if you are seperated from God or it lets you know you are in sin or have done something wrong or causes you to feel terrible, makes you feel heavy, sorrowful, bad. We are describing are the workings of death. The seperations from God.



The word says and I also preach that the greatest expression of love is when christ died for us. (( no greater love hath any man than he that would give his life for another ). I also preach the second greatest act of love God has given us is the spirit of conviction. It is what keeps us in check before falling, it keeps bringing us back to the cross. It helps keep us in the spirit of repentence.



,,,, when people try to put their convictions on us we always say,,,,, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God that worketh in you. God allows death to be worked in us feeling our seperation from him and then we are to work it out. "We are to work out"our own salvation or conviction or death for it is GOD THAT WORKETH IN US.



Revelation 20:6 says Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first ressurection on such the second death hath no power.



rev 2:11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.



You see, God loves us so much,,, he allows us to feel a very small portion of the second death. That is the working of death he is talking about in romans.... There is only 2 deaths darling, the first death and the second death. the first is by way of the grave and the second is the death sentence of hell, total seperation from God,,,, Romans has to be talking about the second death because it is the law of God that brings this about and not the grave.



I will stop for now,,,,, hummm hummmm, Woodrow Bruce Pass

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Deborahe

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please tell me what this scripture means???
Posted : 2 Aug, 2008 12:18 PM

WOW ! DEEP !

I felt the WITNESS OF THE SPIRIT, as I read your explanation of this scripture, Bruce ! Very enlightening stuff !

Thank You:prayingf:

Love in Christ,

Deborah

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