Thread: "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son , in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8:29).
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son , in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8:29).
Posted : 8 Nov, 2011 08:11 AM
This word, "predestined," admits of only one natural meaning. In its lowest sense, predestination is understood to mean the exclusive agency of God in producing every event. But it includes more than this: it takes in God's predetermined appointment and fore-arrangement of a thing beforehand, according to his divine and supreme will.
This is how the Greek is rendered: "to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place" (Acts 4:28). Again, "he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will" (Eph. 1:5). This affirms of God, that the same prearrangement and predetermination which men in general incline to ascribe to him in the government of matter, extends equally, and with even stronger force, to the concerns of his moral administration.
It would seem impossible to form any correct idea of God disassociated from the idea of predestination. And yet how marvelously difficult is it to win minds to a full, unwavering acquiescence in a truth which, in a different application, they receive with unquestioning readiness!
And what is there in the application of this law of the Divine government to the world of matter which is not equally reasonable in its application to the world of mind? If it is necessary and proper in the material, why should it not be equally, or more so, in the spiritual empire? If God is admitted the full exercise of a sovereignty in the one, then why should he be excluded from an unlimited sovereignty in the other? Surely it is even more worthy of him that he should prearrange, predetermine, and supremely rule in the concerns of a world over which his more dignified and glorious empire extends, than that in the inferior world of matter he should fix a constellation in the heavens, guide the gyrations of a bird in the air, direct the falling of an autumnal leaf in the pathless desert, or convey the seed, borne upon the wind, to the spot in which it should grow. Surely if no fortuitous ordering is admitted in the one case, then on infinitely stronger grounds it should be excluded from the other.
Divine foreknowledge and providence could take their stand upon no other basis than this. Disconnected from the will and purpose of God, there could be nothing certain as to the future; and consequently there could be nothing certainly foreknown. And if Providence were not to regulate and control people, things, and events�every dispensation in fact�by the same preconstructed plan, then it would follow that God would be exposed to trillions of unforeseen contingencies, or else that he acts in ignorance, or contrary to his will. What is predestination, then, but God's determining will?
Now all this applies with augmented beauty and force to the idea of a predestinated church. How clearly God has revealed this doctrine! "Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world... In love he predestined us" (Eph. 1:4�5). "Whose names were ... written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain" (Rev. 13:8). "Elect ... according to the foreknowledge of God the Father" (1 Pet. 1:1�2). "Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began" (2 Tim. 1:9). What an accumulation of evidence in proof of a single doctrine of Scripture! Who but the most prejudiced can resist, or the most skeptical deny, its overwhelming force?
Oh, to receive it as the Word of God! To admit it, not because reason can understand it, or man can explain it�for all truth flowing from an infinite source must necessarily transcend a finite mind�but because God's holy Word declares it.
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son , in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8:29).
Posted : 8 Nov, 2011 10:18 AM
It is the being careful of words:
For Calvinist ask can you lose your salvation?
That is not the question is can man turn away, the answer is yes.
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son , in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8:29).
Posted : 8 Nov, 2011 10:22 AM
that is not what the bible says.
John 10:27-28 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. (28) "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Romans 8:28-39 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. (29) For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (30) Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. (31) What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? (32) He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? (33) Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. (34) Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. (35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? (36) As it is written: "FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE KILLED ALL DAY LONG; WE ARE ACCOUNTED AS SHEEP FOR THE SLAUGHTER." (37) Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. (38) For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, (39) nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us [is] God, (22) who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, (14) who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Hebrews 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
{In this verse the indication of past salvation is present reality. The converse would clearly be, "For we have NOT become partakers of Christ if we FAIL TO hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.}
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (4) to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, (5) who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Jer 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
Isa 54:10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.
Matthew 18:12-14 "What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? (13) "And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. (14) "Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Romans 5:8-10 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (9) Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. (10) For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:29-30 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (30) Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
1 Corinthians 1:7-9 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, (8) who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. (9) God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
Colossians 3:3-4 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. (4) When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (24) He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.
2Tim 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve [me] unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
{"those who are being sanctified" = the Elect}
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, [even] eternal life.
1 John 5:4,11-13,20 (4) For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world, our faith.
(11) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. (12) He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. (13) These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
(20) And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Jude 1:24-25 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, (25) To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen.
2Tim 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Rom 11:29 Because God's selection and his mercies may not be changed.
Psalms 55:22 Cast your burden on the LORD, And He shall sustain you; He shall never permit the righteous to be moved.
Hebrews 6:17-19 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, (18) that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us. (19) This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil,
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son , in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8:29).
Posted : 8 Nov, 2011 10:49 AM
PJ I asked moderators to block you and analyze your posts insulting us.
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son , in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8:29).
Posted : 8 Nov, 2011 10:55 AM
Donna, if you fill it appropriate to do regarding you, do it too.
We need to stop him from sins if he does not want to stop his hated.
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son , in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8:29).
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son , in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8:29).
Posted : 8 Nov, 2011 11:47 AM
there is all kind of hate going on on this forum you must be blind
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son , in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8:29).
Posted : 8 Nov, 2011 12:43 PM
pj says "Calvinsit teach you can not turn away from God."
PJ is correct! I finally agree with him about something!
Yippeeee, Hallelujah, and will wonders never cease!
You are 100% correct PJ, some immature Calvinists do teach that you cannot turn away from God, and that is heresy as well.
The truth of election is simply this, "God will never turn away from us!"
Here is Jesus explaining Predestination or Election, pure and simple:
"And this is the Will of the Father which hath sent Me, that of ALL which He has given Me, I SHALL LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up at the last day!" [John 6:39]
Let me add John 6:37 for you, too, PJ:
"ALL that the Father giveth to me SHALL COME TO ME, and he that cometh to me I shall in no wise cast out!"
Now you can take that promise to the bank of eternity!
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son , in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8:29).
Posted : 8 Nov, 2011 08:04 PM
Thanks AWM, so you are saying that you can turn away from God right? you are saying that if the spirit calls then you can choose not to submit? so if thats true then God calls people who will not be the elect because the elect will make it , but they could have been the elect if they had submited to the call??? is that right?
