I understand that it isn't that clear cut with that, with many factors people believe are involved in salvation, including whether or not it can fall away after you are saved.
I am a Calvinist. I believe salvation is accomplished by the power of Almighty God.The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance, thereby causing us to willingly obey the gospel. The entire process (election, redemption, regeneration) is the work of God and is by grace alone. Thus God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation.
I don't have an opinion about this, I have a fact but I am not going to share it because I deleted one of my friends over this same discussion. But answer this one question. If a person gets saved and later quits praying and reading and going to church and says screw you God are they still saved
I would question if they really were saved to begin with. The point of the question is to get to know what other guys think. In order for a couple to be equally yoke, I think this is an important question for the two of them to answer.
well first ,as a Christian you will still make mistakes and have bad habbits (romans 7:14-8:2) just look at king David.
Now i think what you are asking is if you are born again and fall away are yu still saved.
first as long as you dont blaspheme aginst the Holy Spirit you are ok.
two if you do find yourself falling away get in the word repent ( stop what you are doing) and get refreshed in the word
remeber its not a (religion) its a relationship that God desires with us (i want your heart not your sacrifices) becuse of our sin nature we have to go through Jesus
This could be quite the interesting debate. I�m hesitant to get too involved, simply because I�m no authority on either matter. So I�ll premise the following with the fact that it�s simply my own personal opinion on the matter.
I have a hard time swallowing the notion that free will to simply believe is not present in a person. Meaning how can one person have their own free will to do as they please throughout life, yet not have the free will to make a cautious decision about their beliefs. I am aware that in content alone there is more supporting evidence regarding mans lack of free will. Scriptures in Acts, Rom and Jude to name a few. ( I listed them below ). Arguably, it seems that man kind�s free will is not evident according to the Bible. That said the examples of such are not present in real life. We see examples of free will everywhere around us, in everyday life. From the longing for a cup of coffee in the morning, to the choices we make everyday regarding work, school, and spouse � the list goes on. Each decision, albeit known by God is a process of our own logic, thinking, desires and needs as human beings. And to have the ability to make those decisions freely is what makes us human, unique and blessed. Otherwise, we�d be preprogrammed with every decision, we ever made. Perhaps, I�m over thinking this, but logically, Armenian views appear paradoxical if free will is indeed natural to man.
If wo/man has the choice to follow God and save them self, and God knows all the choices that wo/man will make, then God knows who and when each person will choose to be saved, thus has already �elected� said individual/s. But if that�s the case, then God knows who will be saved and it could be interpreted that it is God�s choice who will be saved; that sounds like unconditional election, which is a Calvinist view. Now, whom or where was it construed that God made that decision? If we can�t even fathom what He looks like, how could we possibly know that He had made a definitive decision about who is allowed past the gates and who isn�t. Because I was raised to believe that Jesus died for us all ( 2 Cor 5:15 ). Either we accept Him as our savior and we pass into heaven or we don�t and we fall from grace.
Perhaps, my thinking is more new age. And most Christians would probably read that and consider it heretical doctrine, but I have to be real about this and follow my own heart. And that�s where my own personal beliefs come into play. I wholly believe I�m saved by my faith; it is unwavering. But I don�t believe it�s safe to align oneself fully with the teachings of a single man or small group of individuals. The Bible was written by many all of which moved by the Holy Spirit and spanned over a long period of time. For me that�s evidence enough; read the scriptures, understand what is being said and adhere to those teachings to the best of one�s ability.
Because I�ve learned, in my own experiences that I can follow my heart, but still logically think about the decisions I make. Fortunately, I realize logic will fail me, and the heart can be misleading. Which is why we have the Bible, and why we have the ability to choose God as our savior. I fully believe that it is a choice, it can be sought out and not something that can be given or taken away. �Human nature is to seek knowledge. Gaining knowledge brings a positive force on society.� ( Griffin ) Whether it�s the solution to a math problem or seeking understanding of our world; I�ve known many Christians that have �stumbled� ( for lack of a better word ) upon Christ. Was it something they actively looked for, perhaps, but more or less they choose to believe. Likewise, I�ve known people that have fallen from salvation. Because for them, the Bible didn�t make a lot of sense. Again, their own decision. Likewise, how does Calvinism explain the falling of Lucifer or Adam and Eve? ( I really don�t know, so some insight would be nice� )
Here is something else to consider. If grace is truly irresistible, why is there so much resistance to Christianity in the world? Why would God choose only a few and not many? With as glorious as God is, I can�t comprehend the election of only a few out of many� And something as amazing as a savior is, it�s bound to be resisted. People have a natural tendency to defy change in their lives. We see this in countless stories, not only of Christians being saved, but in movies and videogames, where the Hero�s Journey, Monomyth, is outstandingly prevalent.
If all God knows is who will choose to accept him as a savior and who won�t, why does it matter who is chosen to be accepted and who is not? If all God knows, is the decisions that we will make in our lives, what�s the point of saying who will and who won�t be accepted into the gates of heaven? Faith alone should be good enough to tell you if you�re going to heaven or hell. We know nothing compared to His knowledge, so what right do we have to judge others, in an attempt to dictate whether or not their going to be saved or not? Here�s the simple answer, WE DON�T! Whether or not you�re a Calvinist or an Armenian, how do you know you�re saved? How do you know you�ve been elected, or chosen, what tells you for sure? Is it fact? Is it the Bible? Did God tell you Him self? Can you honestly say you�ve never doubted that feeling? God may know the choices that we make, but how can we say indefinitely that He makes the decision on who is saved or not? Furthermore, how do you measure ones spirituality? Just because one person goes to church on a regular basis and another doesn�t, does that mean one is more �Christian� than the latter?
In my opinion, Calvinism and Arminianism is just another way to reinterpret the Bible.
I know I�m saved, my faith, love and respect of the Lord and knowing that Jesus Christ is my savior tells me so and I challenge anyone to tell me otherwise!
Sources:
The Hero�s Journey, < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_heros_journey >
Griffin, Dakarai, Human Nature of Knowledge, Knowledge is Power, April 9, 2009, http://www.es-cat.org/~dgriffi/gradportfolio/Research_Paper_files/HumanNatureOfKnowledge.pdf
I can show how clear the scriptures are and that they only teach reformed theology, just like our reformed fathers defended and expounded upon: Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Spurgeon, Knox, VanTil, etc.
An outstanding book to read all about this is: The Sovereingnty of God, by Arthur W. Pink
