Author Thread: heb11:12, Isaac as good as dead
hedgedweller

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heb11:12, Isaac as good as dead
Posted : 11 May, 2008 04:56 AM

do you think Isaac's egg was alive in Sarah's womb?



Or do youi think he was alive but as good as dead because she was in menopause and the egg was not flowing no more to the womb ?



Don't read the N.I.V.- UK version or new century version. You won't know what im talking about,,,,,

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heb11:12, Isaac as good as dead
Posted : 15 May, 2008 02:00 PM

:hearts:



Actually, it was not her with the issue.

It was her hubby. Back then, they had no Viagra,Cialia etc etc. So...when she laughed, it was not because she had stopped wanting to make love. It was her hubby's inabiity. That, in my opinion, is what made her laugh to herself the most when she heard the angels say she was to have a child.



But, yes.....Issac was already in her womb because women do not stop producing eggs. It was Abe who needed the help from the Holy Ghost. Sarah was cool!! Quite cool..



Let the Church say Amen :yay:



Seleta

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hedgedweller

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heb11:12, Isaac as good as dead
Posted : 15 May, 2008 07:01 PM

Seleta, Why are you dishing on Abraham and calling him hubby and Abe, its evident you did not read the verse, dont let others interpet the bible for you dear, but read it yourself.

Her hubby as you call it had no problem with producing seed. He had children with Hagar because Sarah could not concieve.



Gen 16:2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained (( me from bearing )) : (( I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her)). And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.



SELETA, YOU SAID _____________________________

((. So...when she laughed. It was her hubby's inabiity. That, in my opinion, is what made her laugh to herself the most when she heard the angels say she was to have a child.

It was Abe who needed the help from the Holy Ghost.))



_________________________________________________

YOU SAID(( Sarah was cool!! Quite cool...))

But, yes.....Issac was already in her womb because women do not stop producing eggs.Let the Church say Amen

_________________________________________________



see, no problem with Abraham... you do remember now DONT YOU?

Also Abraham had more children after Sarah died with kuturah!



last is the original verse of heb 11:11 -12



((Through faith)) .



(( Sara herself RECIEVED STRENGHT to Concieve Seed )),

and was delivered of a child



(( when S H E was P A S T A G E )),



verse 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead.



Isaac was not already in the womb but in the ovaries. Sarah needed a miracle to overcome menopause and to move the seed which had quit flowing.



Seleta,,,,,, this is the reason she made the 11th chapter of hebrew,,,,,,, because Abraham was willing and able but she needed a miracle from God.



She laughed at the angel because she knew abraham was fine and that she had tried for years and couldnt bare children.



By faith abraham counted god faithful who had promised but

BY faith Sarah moved that egg. Now thats a great miracle.



Somewhere between and sleeping with Abraham she started talking to god and

BY Faith recieved her strenght to Concieve Seed.



yes she was cool, quite cool,,,,,,peace !

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hedgedweller

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heb11:12, Isaac as good as dead
Posted : 6 Jun, 2008 07:57 PM

Hopefully this will be easier to understand, many have wrote and asked about it so here it is. A Revelation of gods word. God bless.



Hebrews 11:11-12,,, please read it from both the King James and from the N.I.V-UK version or new century version of bible gateway on the Internet or your own bible. ,,,,,,,,, I don't think that the makers of the N I V intentionally wanted to keep us from seeing this but that they originally understood these verses the same way people do today.



___________________________________________________________________________

OK, New International Version Hebrews 11:11By faith Abraham, ((even though he was past age))�and Sarah herself was barren�was enabled to become a father because he considered him faithful who had made the promise,,

Now the King James Version Hebrews 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself ((received strength to conceive seed)), and was delivered of a child ((when she was past age)), because she judged him faithful who had promised.



Which version is right?

Was it Abraham or Sarah who was past age? The answer is very easy.Lets look at bible history itself.

Let me start by saying the original Greek did say Sarahs name was used in verses 11 of the text and not Abraham's. People always say Abraham was to old to have children,,,, but we know thats not a true statement.

We know he had a child with hagar in Gen 16:2-4 his name was Ismael )



And then gen 23:2 Sarah died in Kirjatharba.

After that abraham married again in gen 25:1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.

2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.

So Then Abraham had Six more sons with Keturah, the wife he took after Sarah died.

(Then he also had many more sons of which we do not know the number of).

6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

7 And these are the days of the years of Abraham's life which he lived, an hundred threescore and fifteen years. 175 years old and still having children. So from 147 to 175 years old he had many more sons.

,So Hebrews 11:11 could not be Abraham as In the NIV. So the king James is right as is the original greek text. 1st fact, It was Sarah who was past age according to bible history,



So what Does past age mean. Bible verse Heb 11;11 Sarah herself (( received strength to conceive seed))

(( when S H E was,, P A S T,, A G E )).

Menopause,, that�s all.

SHE WAS PAST HER TIME FOR PREGNANCY. Thats why she was in the tent, she had double jeopardy. She was not only barren but also had went through menopause, or past age, 2 strikes against her.



__________________________________________________________________________



Heb 11;11 By faith Sarah herself (( received strength to conceive seed))

Some People believe that her (( receiving strength )) only means that God enabled her to carry the child being she was so old in age but that is not the strength she received. She probably needed help and strength to carry the child being she was old but The (emphasis) is on her ability to conceive and not carry the child.

In the original text the word strength comes from 1411 in the greek lexicon Strong's number. It�s a noun not a verb and is the same word as power or ( dunamis, in the Latin, dynamite in the english) her strength received did not enabled or help her carry the child ,,,,, but gave her the ability to conceive. Hebrews 11 ((Through faith)) Sara herself ((RECEIVED STRENGTH, dunamis, the power (( to Conceive Seed )),,See ,this scripture is directed to conceiving and not carrying. So Sarah's miracle leads us to the next verse.



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After people say it is Abraham not Sarah (past age)all interpetation goes down hill rather quickly.

Verses 11&12 Abraham is not the focus of attention here but Sarah and the journey of Isaac,,,,,, This is Sarahs time for some recognition, she made the book of Hebrews,11th chapter because of her faith just like many other's, the likes of Rahab and these. 33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions. Yes, she made heb 11 by her faith.



Last is verse 12 ((Therefore )) ((sprang)) there ((even of one)), and ((him as good as dead)).

1st the word therefore; In the dictionary: it's an adverb and also serving to connect and to express comment on clause content, prior to.

Example of therefore.

a: for that reason : consequently

b: because of that

c: on that ground

2: to that end. So What was said in verse 11 is the reason, cause or ground for the following statement in verse 12.





Again verse 12 ((Therefore )) ((sprang)) there ((even of one)), and ((him as good as dead)).



The 2nd word ((sprang)). In the original Greek text it is (Gen-na-o)the same as our word geneaology, or to come from.

1) of women giving birth to children,or 1) of men who fathered children,

a) to be born,

So we see this could mean both female or male. In this case it is female however because of the word therefore which means to refer back to the previous statement or for the reason given before.

It was Sarah verse 11 was talking about being past age and received strength to conceive seed because Abraham is not mention in the original text and he was fathering children. He was just fine.



verse 12 ((Therefore )) ((sprang)) there ((even of one)), and ((him as good as dead)). I will not go deep into this as it doesn't need it. If the word therefore and sprang is talking about Sarah springing isaac( the egg) and he was the one being sprung, then ( Even of One) . The only one who sprang from Sarah is Isaac.



Now read it again throughly;

Verse 12 (( Therefore, refering back to,for that reason,prior to. )) (( sprang, of women giving birth, to be born )) there (( even of one, his mother)), and (( him, Isaac )) , (( as good as dead , because the eggs werent flowing no more.)).

_________________________________________________________________________

So Hebrews 11:12 is About Isaac not Abraham.

Everyone says it is Abraham), I mean everyone, all pastors, all evangelist, all commentaries, hand books, versions, even commentaries in the King James version, etc etc. THIS IS not Abraham!!! It could not be, never.

If people were to say this in Jeruselem the Jewish people would laugh at them.They know better.

It was never going to be Isaac until it came from Sarah's egg. So the part that was as good as dead WAS in Sarah,her egg,,,, the embodiedment of Isaac.



Now read as a whole the two verses, Heb 11:11-12 ((Through faith)) ((Sarah herself )) ((RECEIVED STRENGTH, POWER)), to (( Conceive Seed, not carry )) and was delivered of a child ((when S H E was,,P A S T,,A G E,, Menopause)). Because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Verse 12 (( Therefore, refering back to, for reasons given in verse 11 )) (( sprang, of women giving birth, to be born )) there (( even of one,his mother )), and (( him, Isaac )) , (( as good as dead, because she wasnt flowing no more. )). Isaac was locked up.



Once we realize that when a woman goes through menopause, her eggs, though alive,,,,, are as good as dead,,,, because they are no longer flowing. They're locked up,,,, cant get to,,,, the journey is not accessible any longer,,,, the way is not made. Notice he isnt dead but as good as dead!

This is a great miracle to overcome both barenness and menopause in Her life. ((( The promise ((Was to Abraham)),,,,,,, ((but was fulfilled in Isaac)),,,,,, and in turn would be the promise to Israel and to the heirs who are adopted to the family of God by faith, the church, Us.,,,, Awesome!

Imagine Sarah the woman, this happened to her? The father (Abraham) and Isaac's and the nation of Israel's destiny and future laid in the heart of a woman ,,,wow,,, to funny,,,,,, tell me God doesn't put trust in us to rise to the occasion. Now that would preach at a women's conference ,,, ,

I just havent determined what the title of the message will be yet. Maybe ,,, The Heart of a Laughing Women!



Once that seed got to where it was suppose to be she did what women do best,,,,, Birth that child,,,she Birthed a Promise,,,,so like wise with us,,,, when by faith we believe and the seed of god gets into the womb of our heart we will bring forth children and fruit also,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I'm to tired to go back and read this so pardon if there are errors.

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