...right after Christ Died knew what the correct Interpretation of Scripture was?
I mean...they were hearing it straight from the "horse's mouth" (so to speak) and even up to the time that The Church decided what was and wasn't Inspired Scripture -- they had to know what was the correct Interpretation...right?
I mean how else could they choose which Letters and Books went into The New Testament if they did not already know what it meant?
What I am getting to is if they did (and it's obvious that they had to know)...when did they Lose that knowledge? I mean that we do not hold any One Church as having that Knowledge...of holding that Full Deposit of Faith and use Scripture to Interpret Scripture.
What happen? Where did that Knowledge go? And How was it Lost?
Anyway Arch, As I was making my pies for Thanksgiving, I felt the nudge of the Holy Spirit reminding me that to teach and discuss maturely and in the bond of agape love is good, but to argue to try and persuade someone of your belief is not His way nor ever was. So I hope that I have come across in love and humility, too, cause being so right that you're wrong is not fruitful or Christlike. Peace to ya! :purpleangel:
Back to watching Marx Brother's "Duck Soup" and letting my endorphins have a party. :laugh:
Yeah...but the catholic church literally changed God's commandments to cater to paganism and restructured the entire church to model it after paganism. Whatever it is, it isn't biblical. The pomp and splendor is completely against Jesus's example and fits right in with paganism. The holidays/traditions are pagan holidays covered up with christian names. They deified Mary into "perfection" and prayed to her like an intercessor. Priests and monks and nuns, etc. They had pseudo-pagan views of hell and heaven. They worshiped idols. You don't think paganism invaded the catholic church? I mean, the catholic church changed or removed several of God's commands. I won't argue about the structure of the early church because I haven't read the letters, but the compromise and backsliding was already starting during the apostle's time, that's why Paul was constantly writing letters. People were already departing from the truth.
Strife and Arguing are from the dark side�the negative side. We all agree that Truth is Truth. Truth is not relative. Truth does not change�it is never altered or modified. The thing is though that we all have a Separate Reality. Each and every one of us has a Separate Reality that we believe to be the True Reality.
Our upbringing and our Life Experiences�our Religious Beliefs�many things go into this Reality of ours, but to each of us it is REAL! It is the way we see the world and the way we react to life.
For me it is simple. The Writers of Scripture knew what they were trying to get across in their writings. These same Writers were around in the Early Days of The Church. They taught Disciples�explaining to them what their writings meant. They answered any questions and corrected any errors. They told their Disciples to
�HOLD FAST TO THESE TRADITIONS.�
It�s in Scripture somewhere�where, I am not sure of but Paul wrote this.
Again, The Church has always had the correct interpretation of Scripture. Even Scripture itself says that
�The Church is The Pillar and Foundation of Truth�
Meaning that The Church has the interpretations and The Full Deposit of Faith left to Her by Her Spouse JESUS CHRIST.
I do not trust myself to interpret Scripture. I do read it and feel whatever Scripture moves me to feel. I do get �insights� and Epiphanies (Sp) from reading Scripture. But when it comes to the Interpretation I acquiesce to The Church�s Interpretation.
I am not trying to change anyone�s thinking. The Holy Spirit will do that if it is His Will. I just want to defend my Church because I see lies being spread and I want my Brothers and Sister to think for a bit and hear a different point of view. Tis all�
Man looks at the outward but God sees the heart~He will be your judge, Arch. I cannot embrace the Catholic belief but do agree to accept our differences and pray that we come into the unity of the faith as we see the day of Christ on the near horizon. :purpleangel:
Thought you wanted a sincere discussion? I am offering you one. It appears you do not want to be pinned down on a definition? I'm not looking for paragraphs like you are writing to others, a simple one word answer will do, a yes or no.
You make accusations that you have not backed up with either Scripture or any kind of proof other than your opinion. That�s Very Unfair. It is sort of like saying that The Seventh Day Adventists are a cult because it was started by some woman and it is Unbiblical without giving any evidence to what I state as the truth.
I�ll take one of your accusations:
�The holidays/traditions are pagan holidays covered up with Christian names�
That is True! The Church could not think of a better way to combat paganism then to take their worship days and change them into Christian days of worship. Where better to build a church then on top of a pagan worship site?
(your words here) �They worshiped idols�
I would be willing to bet that in your wallet you have photos of people that you Love and Adore? Would you say that you �worship� those photos by showing them �Reverence� and by placing them in a position of �Importance� (such as on your walls or desktop)?
Marble is marble�wood is wood. Nothing alive there�certainly nothing to �worship�. These statues are �symbols� of that which we Worship and Adore. We do not believe that they are �alive� and are the thing that we worship.
I will admit that some of us have taken �adoration� of The Mother of Our Lord a bit too far (which The Church sternly warns against doing).
Don�t�be careful about making blanket statements about someone else�s church without any example to cite (actual).
Your idea of "church" is where every "individual" claims to hear God's Instruction to them "directly" and where there is no control or direction other than what every individual claims is given to them by The Holy Spirit.
Sounds like a "Top spinning aimlessly" being drawn wherever man wants to pull it.
Scripture says differently. Christ specifically makes Peter His Vicar of His Church.
Your church has no final court of appeal other than each individual person...which can lead to there being 38,000 different (Individual) churches...all claiming to be led by The Holy Spirit.
Well, I was talking about the historic catholic church, not the current one. They've taken a lot of steps toward the truth in the last 100 years. I honestly didn't think I would need to support my statements, it's pretty obvious from history, and my father was and my grandmother is a catholic, so I hear/see the things first hand. The catholic church was basically a pagan religion with christian titles. I'll go into it a bit later...it's time to be around turkeys!
Hopefully you can see that I was speaking in past tense for most of it, but there isn't much, if any, biblical support for a very large amount of what Catholics did, and what they did fit into paganism far better, it was almost a mirror image. Remember, we're talking about opinions on how the church lost the truth, in the past. In the past, the catholic church was very largely influence by paganism, and they did pray to idols. I don't put pictures of my loved ones in my church and kneel beneath them to pray to them, or to remind me to pray to them, or whatever you meant. They probably don't do that now, but there was a time where the second commandment was missing from the catholic doctrine. That's all I meant. Sorry if I offended you, and I can see your point about just "saying" things about peoples churches...I'll submit proof in the future.
endorphins have a party. :laugh: