Abraham tithed before the Law. I have heard that point made by many christians. i grew up in a church that used the Old Testament Law to support tithing for the Body of Christ.
The funny thing is these christians ignore the fact that abraham was circumcised before the law was given. According to this method of interpretation ("choosing what seems good"), at the extreme, someone might say, "i'm to leave my country because God told abram to do that." It is clear that God told abram to do that. So are we to do everything that God told abraham to do? Of course not. So I would ask a question of those who use Scripture in this way. They pick and choose what they want, as long as it fits their theology. That is why I said in another post," what parts of the law do these christians choose to follow and what parts do they choose to ignore."
May God give all of us christians more understanding of His grace!
Col 1:9 For this reason we also, from the day we heard of your faith and love , do not cease praying and asking for you, so that you will be filled with the full knowledge of his will, in all wisdom and spiritual understanding,
10 so as to walk worthy of the Lord unto everything well-pleasing, bearing fruit in every good work, and growing by the true knowledge of God;
11 being strengthened with all power according to the might of his glory resulting in all endurance and patience
12 with joy giving thanks to the Father, who has made us acceptable to share in the portion of the saints in the light.
"The message of the Cross. Jesus Christ and Him crucified is Truth. "
That's a true statement, Moonlight. Even those who proclaim a gospel of works say what you said.
If Paul proclaimed a gospel of works, no one would have said, shall we sin that grace may abound. No one would have said, let us do evil that good may come.
It is only because Paul proclaimed the gospel of Grace without works of any kind, ritual or moral, that he was accused and challenged. If the salvation that God gives us is kept by works, ritual or moral, then it isn't by grace through faith in Christ. Romans 6 and the call to live a life pleasing to God comes after the sin of the human race is laid bare in Romans 1:18-3:20. Gentiles sin and Jews sin. None are righteous, none seek God, indeed we are all destitute and deprived of the glory of God. Then we find that God provides the remedy, being justified(declared righteous) freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach to you contrary to what we preached to you, let that one be accursed.
I can't emphasize this enough. if you believe you are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, then you are saved. We know from scripture that no believer lives a life of perfection. So that means others got saved the same way you did, by God! They are just as "genuinely and truly" saved as you are. Some christians give lip service to the concept of salvation by grace through faith. They really don't believe it. They add works of one kind or another.
Some believers are new Christians. If they are in kindergarten or 1st grade would you expect them to do calculus? But if they have been in the 1st grade for a few years, they need some summer school help. Even those who are in the 12th grade may not live up to their potential. Some students coast through.
Paul addresses the corinthians as saints. He calls them babies. Unfortunately, many christians are babies. But when a person is saved, they are saved. there is no distinction between a saved person who walks the walk and a saved person who doesn't walk the walk. they are both "genuinely and truly" saved. but those who do not walk the walk will be saved, but as by fire.
col 3:25 But the one that does wrong will receive for the wrong which he has done: and there is no respect of persons.
eph 4:8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any one does, the same will he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
1 cor 3:15 If any one's work will be burned, he will suffer loss: but he himself will be saved; yet so as by fire.
"I know that person is truly saved, that person is really saved, that person is a genuine Christian." Really?
If a person is rescued from a burning car and they live to tell about it, was that person "truly" saved? But someone else who was rescued from a burning car and is alive to tell about it, they weren't "truly" saved?
Salvation is salvation. If you believe that YOU are saved by grace through faith in Christ without works, why can't you believe that is true for others? Well, you say "they don't believe exactly as I do." "They don't act like it like I do." When you were born, how much did you know? Your mother had to change you and feed you and bathe you. Did you do anything to deserve that? Did you say, mommy, I've been bad, don't feed me or change me?
God saved us by grace through faith, without works of any kind. And, certainly, our knowledge at the time of our salvation was imperfect. So, God didn't save us because we had an accurate knowledge of salvation or theological terminology. How can we as Christians say things like that? Paul argues against human wisdom and knowledge in first Corinthians. We need to remind ourselves of who saved us. It's God and not us.
1Corinthians 1:26 For behold your calling, brethren, how that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong;
28 and the base things of the world, and the things that are despised, God chose , and the things that are not, that he might bring to nought the things that are:
29 that no flesh should glory before God.
30 But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption:
31 that, according as it is written, He that boasts, let him boast in the Lord.
Getting Water Without A Bucket and Worshipping Without A Temple
Posted : 8 Apr, 2022 07:18 AM
John 6:35 And Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life: he that comes to me will never hunger; and he that believes on me will never thirst.
The book of John has many phrases in it that are to be taken spiritually as opposed to physically. The 6th chapter is used by many as if it were about some ceremony or ritual. This passage isn't talking about the passover or the last supper. It is like John 4. Once you get the living water, you will never thirst. Once you get the bread of life, you will never hunger.
I wish to understand what you are saying. Are you calling into question the salvation of people merely because they don't use the Law as their standard for how they order their lives? What parts of the Law do you keep? Which parts of the Law do you choose to ignore?
You quoted
Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of abraham.
The passage is not being used to teach tithing. The passage describes the act of abraham giving tithes to melchisedek. Levi, being in the loins of Abraham, is represented as also giving tithes to Melchisedek to show the superiority of the priesthood of Melchisedek. Indeed the passage goes on to say,
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood(the levitical) being changed(displaced, removed), there is made of necessity a change(removal, displaced) also of the law.
The passage describes that there is now a displacement in the priesthood. it is no longer through Aaron and levi but through Christ. Since this law or commandment of the levitical priesthood is changed, the law itself is displaced or removed.
Hebrews is a great book. I think Christians should read it with great attention. Every believer can benefit from it.
Getting Water Without A Bucket and Worshipping Without A Temple
Posted : 7 Apr, 2022 02:05 PM
When Christ passed through Samaria, he stopped by a well to get water. A Samaritan woman came to draw water and he asked her for some. She asked him, since you are a Jew, why are you having anything to do with me?
And Christ replied, if you knew who it was that asked you for water, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water. She said that he had nothing to draw with and the well was deep. "Where will you get this living water?"
He told her whoever drinks this water will thirst again. The one who drinks the water that he gives will never thirst. She said, give me this so that I will not thirst, nor come here to get it.
So, she is still thinking of physical water. Now Christ tells her how many husbands she has had. She said , I see that you are a prophet.
At this point, she compares the Samaritan place of worship with the Jewish place of worship. Christ doesn't disagree but he says, Woman, believe me, the hour is coming , when you will neither in this mountain in Samaria , nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Then he says, But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Christ lets her know that Samaria doesn't qualify but neither does Jerusalem. It isn't about wet water or a particular city or nation or any physical place. Those who worship Him must do so in spirit and truth. That's the kind of worship He seeks from us.
Luke 18:12 is an interesting verse. It's the Pharisee and the tax collector. Note what it says. 18:9 " And he spoke also this parable to certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others." The pharisee is bragging in his prayer.
"I thank you, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I possess."
What was the tax collector's attitude? "And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes to heaven, but was beating on his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. " We might say that the tax collector said, "God, reconcile me" or "make atonement for me." The Pharisee knew that the temple was where the sacrifices for sin were made. So did the tax collector. But their attitudes were totally different. The pharisee trusted in his own works. The tax collector was trusting, not in himself, but in that God ordained sacrifice that was oftentimes laid on the altar in the temple.
Are we boasting in tithing which was God given under the law? Are we boasting in any works of the Law?There has been a complete transformation. As Hebrews declares, the sacrifices have been done away with, replaced by the once for all sacrifice of Christ. The priesthood of Aaron and Levi has been done away with, replaced by Christ, who was both priest and sacrifice. The temple is gone, replaced by that spiritual house of Christ, even of God (Hebrews 3:6, 10:21).
May we boast and glory in Christ, even His cross (I Corinthians 1:31, Galatians 6:14).
