I Think it is OK for a Woman/Lady/Girl to Make the First Move - Right?
Posted : 2 Mar, 2023 08:57 PM
Beltheshazzar01,
Thank you for your candid response to Charmingbaby and for backing up your feedback with real life experiences you've had here on CDFF. I can't even improve upon what you've already said, since it is hard evidence based on your personal experiences. I will only wish that we get to meet the awesome women of our dreams here or elsewhere. Somehow, I believe that there are exceptions to this adverse rule, and that's what we're hoping for There's always that one woman who will show up to make a difference!!!
I Think it is OK for a Woman/Lady/Girl to Make the First Move - Right?
Posted : 2 Mar, 2023 08:50 PM
Hello Charmingbaby,
Thank you for taking the time to comment and for exchanging unbelievably valuable ideas with Beltheshazzar01. Both of your thoughtful threads are fascinating. Le me start with a response to initial response to my question:
You Wrote: My Prince, this is a very interesting subject. This would vary from one person to another. If a woman is comfortable/confident with contacting the guy FIRST then I guess it’s okay though I have a different opinion and I could be wrong.
My Response: Charmingbaby, thank you and I agree with your objective assessment. I like how you acknowledged that it is possible, “If a woman is comfortable/confident with contacting the guy FIRST…” And that’s the kernel of my question. And as you demonstrated with yourself as an example, not all women welcomes the idea – and that’s another puzzle, since we are in the 21st century of freedom and equality, right? I totally respect your opinion and how you framed it. Thank you.
You Wrote: I feel Men value and enjoy what they have hunted for. In my own opinion I would prefer if the guy went first. they have the experience in this field any way. Last but not least it feels great and special to be found, wanted, and chased by the man and a lot of work on the other to chase the guy..
My Response: Wow, that’s phenomenal. The analogy of men as “hunters” is impressive and also might be an answer to the evasiveness of women from men’s hunting instincts (LOL). I’m yet to encounter a woman who desires to be a man’s [easy] prey (lol). I doubt that all women (esp. Christian feminists) would agree with the analogy though – given the converse portrayal of womanhood as men’s “prey” in the dating “game” (oh boy!!!).
Regardless, your preference for the man to lead in making the first move is interesting especially for the reasons you cited: 1. Prior experience (probably based on some assumptions you’re yet to share?); 2. The gratification and sense of worth you would feel for being “found, wanted, and chased” by the man (the hunter); 3. The undue burden a woman would feel, otherwise – if she were to go first.
These are all super valid reasons and assumptions that fit well into a complementarian philosophy of man-woman relationship. Complementarians argue that the man is the “head” (leader, chief, or supreme authority or lord) of the woman. So, they expect the man (as the “head of the home”- as Christ is the head of the church) to lead the way in everything. They shun and resist the free expression of a woman’s will, desire, or feeling. In fact they shame women who take the initiative in dating – branding them with words frowned at by CDFF algorithm (lol – wouldn’t even let me use those “mild” terms here).
As an egalitarian, I am against every suppression of a woman’s God-given and Constitutionally protected full rights to humanhood. A free human being should be unfettered in expressing their innermost desires, aspirations, desires, and thoughts – without fear of patriarchal oppression, shaming, etc. In this lens, if a woman approached me, whether shyly or confidently to express interest in me, right there, her value shoots over the roof for me. That’s because I would perceive her as a progressive-minded free woman, unafraid, daring, and undaunted. She is manifesting the freedom of the Children of God who Christ has set free. By taking that unpopular step, she has broken the glass ceiling and stereotype of so-called “women of old times.”
So, while I agree with you on the natural reticence adopted by most Christian women on this matter, I also think there’s great value in adventuring beyond the patriarchal barriers and borders imposed by tradition, religion, and culture. What do you think?
You Wrote: Finally contacting the guys requires skills and to be honest most of us women don’t have it and we fear we would make such a big fool of ourselves if we tried LOL
My Response: OMG (Mind Blown!). Thank you so much for revealing these nuggets to us. I’ve NEVER had a woman share this secret about the woman’s mindset and concerns with making the first move. It makes great sense – looking back at some of my experiences here too. I’ve had some FAKE FEMALE contacts that actually got banned by CDFF before I could reply. It made me wonder. I’ve also interacted with some who ended up being RELIGIOUS FANATICS. For instance, just recently, there’s one that’s been emailing back and forth about her interest in finding a “Reformed Man” to date. Well, I my profile clearly shows that I don’t belong to her denominational preference and I emailed her with that information. She still indicated that she was “curious” about my theological perspective.
So, knowing how contentious religious and theological differences could impact relationships, I explained that I am not interested in her denomination and theology. Yet, she would email her theology questions and I would graciously answer them frankly (since I wasn’t expecting to “win” her). Next thing I know, she got mad at me for not reflecting “Reformed” theology perspectives in my responses (wild wild West lol). So, of course I blocked her. Religious and theological differences constitute irreconcilables in relationships, so once a person have their mind already made up on these matters, they should not come to a dating platform to harass others who believe differently.
I interacted with another lady on CDFF (via email) who said she was going to Eastern Europe to reside there on a Christian mission thing she believes is her destiny. So, after a couple of emails, I informed her that it doesn’t make sense for her to be on CDFF “stealing the time from some guys who are sincerely here to find a potential life partner. Some people here would probably disagree with me (and that’s fine), but if I am planning to ship out of the U.S. on a long-term missionary posting, CDFF or any other dating site will be the last place I would be “snooping” around for a life partner. This is a vast ocean of diverse people from a plurality of backgrounds and with unfathomable degrees of expectations from CDFF. I guess we will get to meet the bad, the good and the ugly from all sides of the aisle.
Overall, thank you Charmingbaby for your fascinating feedback. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts – and maybe getting to know you more here. Blessings!!
Oh hi, Little David, thanks for your response!! I didn't expect your newfound Messiah-complex when we've been having a robust back and forth on various - admittedly - hard topics. At least now you have a picture that shows a face (hopefully that's actually you) that I can visualize as we reflect more.
I just noticed that there is a science/philosophy platform in the discussion board that I can post future topics on. You may also pose questions there for us to explore and debate.
A point of correction though: when I address issues raised by either your tone, theory, or methodology, it doesn't amount to name-calling at all. And, it evaluated objectively, my responses and rebuttals have addressed core issues explicitly stated by you or implicitly evident in your logic.
If disagreeing with you is synonymous with "attacking Jesus," then that's a Messiah-complex or victim-complex. Also, if holding disparate Christian perspectives from yours means that I am an "unbeliever" then we can't actually have any helpful debates on CDFF. Philosophical, theological, religious, political, and even biblical disparities are part of God's plan for Hischildren. For, though we have many opposing views, we are one in Christ - or you disagree?
Ladies, Why Do Women Send Subliminal Messages to Men?
Posted : 22 Feb, 2023 07:53 PM
NotSettllingYet, thank you for your insightful post and recommendations. To enrich the discussion, here's some nuggets I found in my research on this issue. These are so good that I have adopted them into my profile to guide me and any future dating prospect. Like my disclaimer affirmed, I did not author the ideas or words. Happy reading:
Disclaimer: I am not the author of any of the following. The words and ideas were Directly Culled from Public Access Articles that I found very helpful in my personal quest to find a successful marital relationship. The authors and online publisher are fully credited below and at the end.
Online Dating Questions: (by Tessa Petak, 2022).
• What do you do for a living?
• What are some goals or aspirations you have in your career?
• What has been your favorite vacation? ("Asking this question on a first date will open up a conversation about where your date has traveled and if you are both into the same types of vacation destinations," says Sullivan.)
• What's the most interesting fact you know?
• What is your ultimate favorite meal?
• What is your all-time favorite movie/show?
• Do you have any hobbies?
• What's your favorite holiday? ("This question may give you an insight into your date's religion based on the answer, which can be an important part of a relationship," says Sullivan.)
• Are you more of a morning or night person?
• How many siblings do you have?
• What is the level of commitment you are looking for, generally speaking?
Dr. Jenn Mann (2022): Recommended Online First Date Questions -
Travel Questions
A study by psychologist Richard Wiseman found that talking about travel is a very successful dating topic. According to his research, couples who talked about travel wanted a second date 18 percent of the time, whereas those who talked about movies only wanted a second date 9 percent of the time. A few fun questions to ask about travel are:
1. What amazing adventures have you been on?
2. What is the best vacation you’ve ever been on?
3. Where is a place you have always wanted to go to but have never been?
4. What place have you traveled to that was better than you expected?
Passions Question
As Stanger points out, people tend to feel good when they talk about things they are passionate about — and in turn, feel good about their date. Asking questions about the things in their life that spark joy allows you to learn about your date and to see if your interests and values align. Some questions, along these lines, that you could ask are:
1. Are you working on any passion projects right now?
2. What's your favorite way to spend your free time?
3. Who is the most fascinating person you’ve met?
4. What hobbies would you get into if you had unlimited time and money?
5. What new skills have you learned or activities have you done recently?
6. What are you always game to do?
7. What is the most spontaneous thing you’ve ever done?
Entertainment Questions
Entertainment-related topics are always a fun way to connect. They allow you to see if you have the same taste and intellectual interests, and they may even turn you on to something that you hadn't heard about.
1. What was the last book you really got into?
2. What TV series do you keep coming back to you and re-watching?
3. What was the last show you binge-watched?
4. What are your favorite apps on your phone?
5. What are your favorite podcasts?
Career and Lifestyle
Getting a bird’s-eye view of what a day in the life of your date typically looks like can help you figure out if you are compatible. Some simple lifestyle compatibility questions you can ask are:
1. What is a typical workday like for you?
2. What about the weekends?
3. What is the most surprising thing that happened to you in the past week?
4. What drew you to your work?
5. Are you a morning person or a night owl?
6. What is your most important outlet to help you de-stress?
7. How much alone time do you tend to need?
8. Which do you prefer, big parties or small gatherings?
Family, Friends, and Upbringing
We can learn a lot about a person from the company they keep. The atmosphere we grew up in, our parents and siblings leave a lasting impression, so learning about those people in your date's life will give you valuable information. Also, social preferences, comforts, and discomforts can be very telling. Some questions you can ask in this area are:
1. Who are your closest friends and why?
2. What friendships have impacted you the most?
3. What was your relationship like with your parents growing up?
4. How close are you with them today (do you talk on the phone once a day, once a month)?
5. Where did you grow up?
6. How would your friends and family describe you as a kid? In high school?
Relationship Goals and Priorities
When looking for a long-term partner, you want to find out if the person at the table with you is looking for the same. It is also important to find out their views on relationships. In this day and age, you should never assume that person you are on a date with wants monogamy. These are important questions to ask to help you find out about your date's relationship history and get a sense of what they're looking for in the future:
1. What are you looking for in a relationship?
2. What are your thoughts on monogamy?
3. Do you see yourself getting married?
4. If divorced, how did you like being married?
5. How long have you been single?
Religion and Politics
While we always hear that we should avoid talking about politics and religion, if you’re looking to spend your life with someone and these issues are important to you, you are going to want to touch on them during that first date. Instead of pulling Bible verses and doctrines on him / her I recommend asking questions that will give you a sense of how your date feels about issues that are important to you, without getting too intense and argumentative.
1. What religion were you raised in?
2. Is that religion still part of your life?
3. Do you consider yourself to be spiritual?
4. How do you feel about the upcoming election?
5. Have you ever had politics or religion end a relationship that was important to you?
6. Have you ever been to a protest or a rally?
7. What social justice issues are you most passionate about?
First Date Don'ts
Here are a few topics that you should avoid on a first date — plus general tips for making the best impression.
Don’t ignore the red flags.
The two biggest reasons why people ignore red flags are because they are super attracted to their date or because they have already created the fantasy of the marriage they plan to have with this person. Keep your eyes wide open no matter how hot someone is.
Stay away from sex.
Sex is super important in a relationship — after you get to know each other [if mutually acceptable, unless you’re both for post-marriage sex]. Once you're with someone, understanding their preferences (and vice-versa) is super important, but you do not need to find this out on a first date.
If you spend a lot of time talking about sex, you are not going to be getting to know each other intellectually and emotionally, which should be your focus on date one. And if your date pressures you to take things physical before you're comfortable, that is a red flag.
Don’t talk money.
Sure, you want to make sure that the person in front of you is a hard worker or has the same priorities about saving as you do, but there are ways to go about this. Offering to split the bill if you are doing a dinner date, or seeing what they offer/suggest when it's payment time should tell you more about your compatibility than asking how much they're taking home.
Throw away your checklist.
Marriage counseling experts say that they see too many women with a vision of what their future husband will look like on paper — so they rule out great men who don't have everything on the list. For example, you may want to reconsider how much weight you place on a specific college degree or a physical attribute like height or skin color.
Avoid yes or no questions.
Always ask open-ended questions. Yes or no questions tend to hit a brick wall pretty fast, while open-ended ones allow the conversation to keep flowing, even if either of you is nervous.
Skip the pick-up lines.
Stranger says: “Cheesy pick-up lines do not work. This is especially important for men to know. Most women have heard them all, and they’re so generic that they do not make the receiver feel special at all. I once went out on a blind date, way back before social media, and the guy greeted me by telling me that he had dreamt of me all night. The fact that he was wearing a whale tie and a fanny pack did not help his cause. Needless to say, it was a short date.”
De-stress before the date.
Take the time to clear your head and get relaxed before a date. If your boss yelled at you and you’re stressed out, you can’t stop obsessing about the pimple on your cheek, or you just had a fight with your mother, you will bring that energy into the date. Take the time to meditate, do some deep breathing, or whatever it takes for you to let the stress go. If you find that your self-esteem or how you feel about yourself is distracting you on the date, these are issues I'd recommend talking through with a therapist.
Conclusion
At the end of the day, every single person that you go on a date with has something to teach you, enlighten you about, or share with you. Even if they don't turn into your life partner, it’s worth listening closely and paying attention. You could find out about something meaningful that will change your life, or something as small as a great new restaurant recommendation. All you have to do is ask.
Direct Sources:
Dr. Jenn Mann (2022). The Best First Date Questions – Plus What to Avoid Talking About. InStyle. https://www.instyle.com/lifestyle/first-date-questions
Tessa Petak (2022). The Questions You Should Be Asking Romantic Prospects When Online. InStyle. https://www.instyle.com/lifestyle/questions-to-ask-online-dating
Little_David, now we have to admit at this point that your fundamentalist-obsession with parochial dogma has rendered you absolutely psychopathically anti-social. I recommend you visit a Christian psychiatrist fast for empirical evaluation and confirmation of this diagnosis.
Otherwise, you're in danger of harming yourself and others. You're lashing out against strangers; you write nonsensical logic; and have a disturbing tendency to parrot others. That's exactly psychotic behavior.
I suspect / believe that you're hiding behind the keyboard underneath some building somewhere - and CDFF provides you an outlet to lash out to make yourself feel good. Trust me, religion and dogma can't provide adequate relief for your kind of malady or condition. I strongly recommend that you see a shrink, quickly. Hope you feel better after your medications!!
I Think it is OK for a Woman/Lady/Girl to Make the First Move - Right?
Posted : 21 Feb, 2023 05:13 PM
Little_David, that's a good point!! I didn't expect us to be smoking the peace pipe so soon
I actually enjoy vigorous robust debate - nothing personal at all. So feel free to shoot your best shots - without thead hominems of course. I like to hear the opposing side.
So are you saying it's biblical, in your perspective, for ladies to make the first move in approaching a guy they fancy or dropping him a line or wink?
Ladies, Why Do Women Send Subliminal Messages to Men?
Posted : 21 Feb, 2023 05:00 PM
Very nice, 1jon310, but I think that the "religious test" for dating or marital relationship isa false litmus test for real love.
My point is that love, dating, marriage, friendship and all forms of interpersonal relationships are universal among humans. Pagans, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, Christians, the godless, and the godly all respond to, and practice these things. Some are successful, others are not - depending on unique / individual circumstances.
Data and most recent surveys on marriages and divorces measured by many indicia, including religion, does not point to better successful love experiences among Christians than among non-Christians. In fact, the converse is true.
In fact you can see the bitterness, wrath, and chagrin of most so-called "Christians" right here on mere discussion of topics. In my view, religion is NOT the great equalizer in dating, love, or marital relationships. You can be married to a "Walking Bibe Spouse" and experience your worst nightmare from him or her.
Here'sa good scripture that is equally apt in response to the issue you raised:
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children...." Hosea 4:6
amazing.