A good number of ladies believe that the husband should be the leader in the marrige, I agree. But the question that I would like to ask is when should the boyfriend become the leader in a relationship. Because if boyfriends are not supposed to be the leader until after marrige, then why do girls expect to find a guy that will lead? (I hope I made the question clear) :waving:
also, while those are good examples of good and bad leadership, i thought the issue was leadership vs. no leadership in a dating relationship.
i guess i'm confused because i can't imagine anybody that likes having the planning done and everything decided for them (which, btw is not an example of being a leader. it's the guy either dragging her around doing everything he wants, or the guy doing what she wants w/o her having to tell him) instead of talking it out and then deciding together. isn't that what mature independent adults do?
Sorry...I never finished the "disturbed" explanation! That's what I get for writing these things at work during the day. :dunce:
I was disturbed because I can't imagine everyone in a relationship (any relationship) being equal leaders. It seems to me that if everyone is a leader, there would end up being a power struggle. People might be better at leading in different areas, and that's fine, but I think that there will always be one person who is the stronger leader. You sort of clarified your statement in your next-to-last post by saying that there can be one who is ultimately in charge, and it no longer "disturbed" me!
As for leader vs. no leader, there needs to be a leader in a dating relationship. I personally think that's the guy's privilege (note: I didn't say "chore" or "job"). That doesn't mean that he makes all the decisions and drags the girl along. They can still talk about it and come to a mutually pleasing solution. But he should be the one to initiate the major "steps" in the relationship. Asking the girl out on the first date. Making the first phone call (or at least offering to). Proposing, if it gets that far. That sort of stuff. If there is no leader, the relationship will go nowhere. If both lead, neither will feel loved and cherished; the girl won't feel like she was worth his effort, and he won't feel like he had to DO anything to "win" her.
But all that is just my opinion. It's not necessarily the "one and only" way for a relationship to be. It's how my current relationship is, though, and I absolutely love it. He's the leader in the major steps, but he never "decides" anything without asking me first. I think I've chosen the restaurant every time we've gone out. I also have made suggestions for dates, and he gladly went along with them. But he called me first. He asked me out first. He initiated the hand-holding. He initiated the first hug. He's leading in a way that makes me feel very special and like I'm precious to him...something valuable to be earned. :hearts:
Did that make more sense? Sorry I was unclear on the earlier post. :rolleyes:
ok. yeah that clears things up pretty well and it's pretty much how i pictured it in my mind too. to me those things were already a given (and easy, or at least reasonable) and leadership was something extra thrown in from left field on top of that and the equation i had in my head was: leadership + leadership = slave driver. and i was like 'that's not adding up. that can't be what they're asking for. am i the crazy one here? :laugh: but it's all good now.
but now with this in mind i have the same question as travisjusttravis: how much leadership does a girl expect and how soon? is it really just as simple as doing what you want (if you want to get to know her, get to know her; if you want to call her, call her; if you want to ask her out ask her out; if you want to tell her something tell her; etc.)?
I was on a date recently and we parked in a garage that spit out a ticket when you came in. After we parked, I looked at the ticket and remarked that I wasn't sure if I was to leave it on the dash or take it with me, as it didn't say on the ticket. My date said, "If in doubt, leave it on the dash." I had an idea of checking the other cars that were parked around us instead. He said, "Good idea".
I appreciated that he told me his mind, but then listened to what I had to say and recognized there was value in it. Not that it was a "I'm right and your'e wrong" situation -- just that I was listened to and valued.
I think the man should take the leadership role from the beginning. Remp - it doesn't have to be an either/or or black/white thing. Not a giving orders/agree on everything thing. It should be a leadership role the man takes on that is built on mutual respect and love, and communication. Always treating each other as you like to be treated, and as you think Jesus would treat the other. HTH
Travis, I'm interested to know why you are asking this question. Are you trying to get out of making decision and leading in your relationships with girls?
One thing several of my female friends have complained about is guys who try to pass off passivity under the guise of being caring and trying to make the girl happy. You have to have a plan. That doesn't mean you ignore what the girl wants to do. You just guide the decision making. If you're trying to decide where to go to dinner, saying "Let's go to McDonald's or Burger King. Which one do you prefer?" is much better than saying, "Let's go wherever you want to go."
Like several women have said previously, you can't just become a leader in the marriage if you aren't a leader during the dating. Leadership is a learned skill.
It's really too bad I had to learn about this kind of stuff the hard way. I would have much preferred to read a book about it in middle school or something. Sadly there isn't really much like that available for Christian guys.
hm...was thinking a bit and have been looking at some scriptures too. yes...really ;).
when i choose to marry a man, that entails that i accept him to be my head. it doesn't say head of the family, but...head of his wife, and love her to death (free translation of love her in the way jesus loved the church.....who died for his church...).
again though, the bible also speaks of: we submit to one another, and of all of us being priests.
it doesn't say the man is the priest of his household...
man clings to his wife, becomes her head (she his neck ;)), they are both priests and thus all they do should be in unity and agreement. deep stuff ;).
if it comes to the head...the greek speaks of the head being the protection, the one that goes a-head...to kill the bears and mice!
it is about protection....and standing for (protecting) the things you both decided on...since you're both priests hearing from god and thus you will have to come to agreement, based on how you both hear god etc etc. and
if it comes to a relationship. i think you simply love one another and that it is a foreshadow of marriage....so i think that you both grow in respecting and loving one another and that you grow into the man becoming the head. if it is about protection, him loving her, she respecting him...those things need to grow....
then.....tadaaaa, when you both are in agreement and made the silliest dicision.....the man will take responsiblity for it! how cool! ;) then finally he is to blame! hahaha, just kidding! really really kidding! :)
so on day one...you (as a woman) might seriously want to kill that bear yourself, since you might not trust yet.....but on day 5 after your man has slain the mouse.....you might trust him killing the bear too ;).
i think everything is simply a process and i think....women should stop having these ridiculous high expectations of men...and..i think men should stop having these ridiculous high expectations of women ;).
I, personally, always appreciate when a man can step up and be a leader to me, even if we are only dating. If he can't lead in a dating relationship, why should I expect him to know how to lead after we get married? I want to have a marriage where my husband is the leader (especially spiritual leader) to myself and my future children and I figure he may as well practice before we even say "I do."
Why should a man be expected to lead his wife spiritually after the marriage but not be expected to lead his girlfriend or fiance before the marriage?
(I posted that in the past from an old profile of mine and I still agree with it, so I wanted to post it under my new profile ;)
hey love the posts here havent been on in a bit but its refreshingtos see some ladies that have a better idea of what a man should be rather than just what feals good. thanks we all are stewards of Gods truth its good to see faithful servants of his councel.
