Who here does not believe "Once Saved Always Saved"?
Posted : 23 Jan, 2019 09:49 PM
This idea of "once saved always saved" apparently comes from Calvinist lines of thinking and is even taught very strongly among non-Calvinist Baptists.
But the Bible says:
When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby. Ezekiel 33
Who here does not believe "Once Saved Always Saved"?
Posted : 24 Jan, 2019 12:47 AM
Patrick, I wonder if you might explain what you mean by “once saved always saved”. Your statement suggesting the idea “apparently comes from Calvinism...” is unclear or possibly misleading.
I’m requesting more detail from you because what may be considered “apparent” and what is historical could be two different things.
Historically the concept of eternal security or “once saved always saved” actually precedes Calvin. But perhaps you’re referring to something entirely different and that’s what I would like for you to explain.
Lastly, you cited a reference from Ezekiel 33 that you contrasted with the “once saved always saved idea”. Here, I wonder if you might further develop the relationship between “once saved always saved” and the reference you cited along with the proposition you’ve drawn. Also, I think a comment or two concerning the fuller context from Ezekiel would be additionally insightful.
Who here does not believe "Once Saved Always Saved"?
Posted : 24 Jan, 2019 05:14 AM
**SALVATION IS 100% FREE WHILE ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS ARE 100% EARNED**!!
**SALVATION IS 100% FREE**
Titus 3:3,4: At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness and **LOVE** of God our Savior appeared , He saved us, **NOT BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUS THINGS WE HAD DONE**, but because of **HIS MERCY**!!
John 1:12,13: To all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, he gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, **NOR OF A HUMAN DECISION** or a husband's will but, **BORN OF GOD**!!
John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "**ALL** that the Father gives Me **WILL** come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day.... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me **DRAWS HIM**, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED THEM**!!"
Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by **GRACE** you have been saved, through **FAITH**—and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the **GIFT OF GOD**—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S WORKMANSHIP**, created in Christ Jesus to do **GOOD WORKS**, which God prepared in advance for us to do!
Romans 12:3: For by the **GRACE GIVEN ME** I say to every one of you. Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourselves with sober judgment, in accordance with the **FAITH GOD HAS DISTRIBUTED TO EACH OF YOU**... We have different gifts, according to the **GRACE GIVEN TO EACH OF US**!!
Romans 9:15,16,18: God says, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy...Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. {But God's saints still preach God's Word to everyone}
John 15:16: Jesus says, You did not choose Me, but I **CHOSE YOU**and appointed you so that you might bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!
Matthew 22:14: Jesus says, "MANY ARE INVITED**, but few are **CHOSEN**!"
Mar 13:20: Jesus says, "If the Lord had not cut short those days, no on would survive, but for the sake of the **ELECT**, whom He has **CHOSEN, He has shortened them!"
{The Lord has shortened the Great Tribulation from 3 1/2 years or 1278 days to 1260 days}
John 13:18: Jesus says, "I am not referring to all of you, I know those I have **CHOSEN**!
Ephesians 1:4-8; 11,12: In love He **PREDESTINED** us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One He loves, In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding... In Him we were also **CHOSEN**, having been **PREDESTINED** in accordance to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity to the purpose of His will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be to the **PRAISE OF HIS GLORY**!!
I Thessalonians 1:4: For we know, brothers loved by God, that He has **CHOSEN YOU**, because our Gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction!
I Peter 2:9: But you are a **CHOSEN PEOPLE**, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you might declare the praise of Him who **CALLED YOU** out of darkness into His wonderful light!!
Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LAMB** but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and **KING** of kings and with Him will be His **CALLED** **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!! {Riding on white horses right after the Marriage Feast of the **LAMB** as per Revelation 19:7-20!}
Romans 6:23: The wages of sin is death, but the **GIFT OF GOD** is **ETERNAL LIFE**!
God's Word clearly teaches that faith, salvation, the Holy Spirit and eternal life are all 100 percent **FREE GIFTS OF GOD** and that the two main incentives for doing good works is being thankful to God for these amazing **FREE GIFTS** and to **EARN HEAVENLY ETERNAL REWARDS** which God has promised His chosen saints for faithful and loving service. Whereas those who believe in **SINLESS PERFECTION** believe that we have to earn our salvation and eternal life by doing **GOOD WORKS** and being **SINLESS** and that the only eternal reward is gaining eternal life by what we do; and if we commit even one small sin after we are saved we will loose our salvation and eternal life. And so man and not God becomes the Author and Finisher of our salvation.
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
**AND SO SALVATION IS 100 PERCENT **FREE** but **ETERNAL REWARDS** are 100 percent **EARNED**!!
Ephesians 6:8: Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will **REWARD** everyone for what ever good he does!
Revelation 22:12 Jesus says, “Behold I am coming soon! My **REWARD** is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!”
Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, “The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels and **THEN** He will **REWARD** each person according to what he has done!”
Luke 11:33,34: Jesus says, "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a **TREASURE** IN HEAVEN** that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your **TREASURE** is, there your **HEART** will be also!"
Luke 14:13,14: Jesus says, "When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be **BLESSED**. Although they cannot repay you you will be **REPAID AT THE RESURRECTION** of the righteous!"
2 Corinthians 5:9,10: We make it our goal to please Him... for we must all appear before the Judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15: His work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his **REWARD**. If it is burned up he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
How to Win Heavenly CROWNS:
I Corinthians 9:24-27: Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes in to strict training. They do it to get a **CROWN** that will not last; but we do it to get a **CROWN THAT WILL LAST FOREVER**! Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize!
2 John 1:8: Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be **REWARDED** fully!.
Revelation 3:11: Jesus says, “I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your **CROWN**!”
2 Timothy 4:7,8: I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the **CROWN** of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me **ON THAT DAY**—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for His appearing!
The **CROWN** of Life for those who persevere under trials and persecution:
James 1:12: Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the **CROWN OF LIFE** that God has promised to those who love Him!
Revelation 2:10 Jesus says, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer... Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the **CROWN OF LIFE**!”
Matthew 5:11,12: Jesus says, “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your **REWARD** **IN HEAVEN**!”
Hebrews 10:32-36: Remember those earlier days after you had received the Light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly **REWARDED**. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you receive what He has promised!
Who here does not believe "Once Saved Always Saved"?
Posted : 27 Jan, 2019 12:00 AM
Hm, there is apparently no notification of there being a reply.
I did not think it would be likely that any who have escaped this wrong teaching would see this particular post, but I did not intend to ignore you: sorry I did not reply sooner to your questions.
In answer to your first question, I do realize that Calvinism received its teachings from previous heretical teachers: Augustine I believe was one.
I think Ezekiel 33 (10-20) makes itself very plain, which was its purpose: to spell out the simple gospel to the dull eared Israelites.
I find it concerning that to explain the gospel people not only skip to the writings of Paul, but directly to those parts which the apostle Peter warned of: those that are hard to understand. This they do when even Paul repeats the same simple terms of the gospel.
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath... - Romans 2:6-8
Who here does not believe "Once Saved Always Saved"?
Posted : 27 Jan, 2019 12:21 AM
Oh, the above was my reply to LittleDavid, I will now see if I can maybe reply in brief to prophetic7744.
The short answer is that God gives the free gift to those that Paul and Ezekiel describe, those who, as Jesus said, "go to work in the vineyard". The gift he gives them is by his own mercy, not created by the righteousness of those he gives it to.
Those who had opened their heart to the Father, would hear his call to the Son. No man can come to Son but by the Father, and none can come to the Father but by the Son. In other words, the Father and the Son are one.
Those who turn to God already have the rewards prepared for them, and they are chosen beforehand for these rewards. But if God could make someone turn to him, everyone would.
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? - Ezekiel 33:11
Yes, eternal life will last forever. So will eternal damnation. If a person who was at one point headed for eternal death can turn and then be on the way to eternal life, he can also turn away from eternal life and again be on his way to eternal death.
Who here does not believe "Once Saved Always Saved"?
Posted : 27 Jan, 2019 02:06 PM
Patrick Lauser Quote:
Those who turn to God already have the rewards prepared for them, and they are chosen beforehand for these rewards.{???} But if God could make someone turn to him, everyone would.{???}
**FAITH, SALVATION THE HOLY SPIRIT AND ETERNAL LIFE ARE ALL FREE **GIFTS** OF GOD**
God's Word clearly teaches that faith, salvation, the Holy Spirit and eternal life are all 100 percent **FREE GIFTS OF GOD** and that the two main incentives for doing good works is being thankful to God for these amazing **FREE GIFTS** and to **EARN HEAVENLY ETERNAL REWARDS** which God has promised His chosen saints for faithful and loving service. Whereas those who believe in **SINLESS PERFECTION** believe that we have to earn our salvation and eternal life by doing **GOOD WORKS** and being **SINLESS** and that the only eternal reward is gaining eternal life by what we do; and if we commit even one small sin after we are saved we will loose our salvation and eternal life. And so man and not God becomes the Author and Finisher of our salvation.
And those who supposedly accept Jesus as their Savior and then completely **FALL AWAY** or are never **FRUITFUL** were never saved by God in the first place as per:
Matthew 13:20-22: Jesus says, "The seed falling on the rocky ground refers to someone who hears the Word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the Word, they **QUICKLY FALL AWAY**! The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the Word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the Word, making it **UNFRUITFUL**
John 15:16: Jesus says, You did not choose Me, but I **CHOSE YOU**and appointed you so that you might bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!
Galatians 5:22,23: The **FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT** is love, joy, peace, forgiveness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control!
**SALVATION IS 100% FREE WHILE ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS ARE 100% EARNED**!!
**SALVATION IS 100% FREE**
Titus 3:3,4: At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness and **LOVE** of God our Savior appeared , He saved us, **NOT BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUS THINGS WE HAD DONE**, but because of **HIS MERCY**!!
John 1:12,13: To all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, he gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, **NOR OF A HUMAN DECISION** or a husband's will but, **BORN OF GOD**!!
John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "**ALL** that the Father gives Me **WILL** come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day.... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me **DRAWS HIM**, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED THEM**!!"
Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by **GRACE** you have been saved, through **FAITH**—and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the **GIFT OF GOD**—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S WORKMANSHIP**, created in Christ Jesus to do **GOOD WORKS**, which God prepared in advance for us to do!
Romans 12:3: For by the **GRACE GIVEN ME** I say to every one of you. Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourselves with sober judgment, in accordance with the **FAITH GOD HAS DISTRIBUTED TO EACH OF YOU**... We have different gifts, according to the **GRACE GIVEN TO EACH OF US**!!
Romans 9:15,16,18: God says, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy...Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. {But God's saints still preach God's Word to everyone}
John 15:16: Jesus says, You did not choose Me, but I **CHOSE YOU**and appointed you so that you might bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!
Matthew 22:14: Jesus says, "MANY ARE INVITED**, but few are **CHOSEN**!"
Mar 13:20: Jesus says, "If the Lord had not cut short those days, no on would survive, but for the sake of the **ELECT**, whom He has **CHOSEN, He has shortened them!"
{The Lord has shortened the Great Tribulation from 3 1/2 years or 1278 days to 1260 days}
John 13:18: Jesus says, "I am not referring to all of you, I know those I have **CHOSEN**!
Ephesians 1:4-8; 11,12: In love He **PREDESTINED** us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One He loves, In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding... In Him we were also **CHOSEN**, having been **PREDESTINED** in accordance to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity to the purpose of His will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be to the **PRAISE OF HIS GLORY**!!
I Thessalonians 1:4: For we know, brothers loved by God, that He has **CHOSEN YOU**, because our Gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the **HOLY SPIRIT** and deep conviction!
I Peter 2:9: But you are a **CHOSEN PEOPLE**, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you might declare the praise of Him who **CALLED YOU** out of darkness into His wonderful light!!
Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LAMB** but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and **KING** of kings and with Him will be His **CALLED** **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!! {Riding on white horses right after the Marriage Feast of the **LAMB** as per Revelation 19:7-20!}
Romans 6:23: The wages of sin is death, but the **GIFT OF GOD** is **ETERNAL LIFE**!
God's Word clearly teaches that faith, salvation, the Holy Spirit and eternal life are all 100 percent **FREE GIFTS OF GOD** and that the two main incentives for doing good works is being thankful to God for these amazing **FREE GIFTS** and to **EARN HEAVENLY ETERNAL REWARDS** which God has promised His chosen saints for faithful and loving service. Whereas those who believe in **SINLESS PERFECTION** believe that we have to earn our salvation and eternal life by doing **GOOD WORKS** and being **SINLESS** and that the only eternal reward is gaining eternal life by what we do; and if we commit even one small sin after we are saved we will loose our salvation and eternal life. And so man and not God becomes the Author and Finisher of our salvation.
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
** SALVATION IS 100 PERCENT **FREE** but **ETERNAL REWARDS** are 100 percent **EARNED**!!
Ephesians 6:8: Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will **REWARD** everyone for what ever good he does!
Revelation 22:12 Jesus says, “Behold I am coming soon! My **REWARD** is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!”
Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, “The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels and **THEN** He will **REWARD** each person according to what he has done!”
Luke 11:33,34: Jesus says, "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a **TREASURE** IN HEAVEN** that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your **TREASURE** is, there your **HEART** will be also!"
Luke 14:13,14: Jesus says, "When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be **BLESSED**. Although they cannot repay you. you will be **REPAID AT THE RESURRECTION** of the righteous!"
2 Corinthians 5:9,10: We make it our goal to please Him... for we must all appear before the Judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15: His work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his **REWARD**. If it is burned up he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
How to Win Heavenly CROWNS:
I Corinthians 9:24-27: Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes in to strict training. They do it to get a **CROWN** that will not last; but we do it to get a **CROWN THAT WILL LAST FOREVER**! Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize!
2 John 1:8: Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be **REWARDED** fully!.
Revelation 3:11: Jesus says, “I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your **CROWN**!”
2 Timothy 4:7,8: I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the **CROWN** of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me **ON THAT DAY**—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for His appearing!
The **CROWN** of Life for those who persevere under trials and persecution:
James 1:12: Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the **CROWN OF LIFE** that God has promised to those who love Him!
Revelation 2:10 Jesus says, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer... Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the **CROWN OF LIFE**!”
Matthew 5:11,12: Jesus says, “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your **REWARD** **IN HEAVEN**!”
Hebrews 10:32-36: Remember those earlier days after you had received the Light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly **REWARDED**. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you receive what He has promised!
Who here does not believe "Once Saved Always Saved"?
Posted : 28 Jan, 2019 02:57 AM
You did not explain what you mean by, “once saved always saved” which is the topic of your post.
If you believe salvation can be forfeited by sin then you believe in a works based salvation. In other words, since you insist a person can loose their salvation when their righteous acts dip below an undetermined level, then the salvation you embrace is a works based endeavor consisting of human effort and acts of personal righteousness.
Pat, if you, “...realize that Calvinism received its teachings from previous heretical teachers...” then, why would you go on to say, “the idea...apparently comes from Calvinist lines of thinking...”. This is a curious inconsistency.
Incidentally, the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints (once saved always saved) precedes both Calvin and Augustine.
You’re obviously unacquainted with the topic you’ve chosen to post.
As for Ezekiel 33, there’s nothing in there about loosing one’s salvation. Your conclusion is caused by not reading the text carefully.
The “righteous man,” of whom you refer, is faulted because he depends on his “righteousness” to save him when he sins. Obviously this kind of self-righteousness amounts to a false faith, a misplaced confidence and has more in common with your position.
No OT person and no NT person is ever saved by the quantity of personal “righteousnesses”
Who here does not believe "Once Saved Always Saved"?
Posted : 28 Jan, 2019 09:38 AM
"Once saved always saved" is pretty self-explanatory: the idea that if at any point you are saved then at no point after that can you be not saved.
About the origins of the idea, what I meant was that its current presence today came from ancient heretics through the influence of Calvinism, but that is only my impression. It may have just come directly from the ancient heretics.
According to the Bible our receiving God's forgiveness is based on our works by condition, and by purchase is based entirely on the blood of Christ. The gift is offered to the unrighteous on condition that they turn to righteousness, and thereby the sins of the righteous are washed away by grace: "And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments." - Exodus 20:6
"When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live..." He whom God calls righteous is truly righteous, not self-righteous, and he that God says will live will surely live. "if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it." He who had eternal life, if he turns from God, shall die.
The righteousness required by God is clearly defined in Scripture, and this is by the overabundant mercies of God. According to Scripture we are without excuse, and have the Law of God written on our hearts.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:20
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. - I John 2:29
Who here does not believe "Once Saved Always Saved"?
Posted : 28 Jan, 2019 10:58 AM
Patrick says:
“ "Once saved always saved" is pretty self-explanatory: the idea that if at any point you are saved then at no point after that can you be not saved.”
David replies:
To the contrary. Because of its many false
interpretations and application the phrase is obviously not “self-explanatory”. For example, some believe, “once saved always saved” means that instant eternal security is granted simply from reciting a “repeat after me prayer for salvation”. Some believe the prayer guarantees salvation as if it were a fire insurance policy against the possibility of hell fire! Incredibly these people believe a person saying such a prayer need not ever indicate evidence of sorrow over sin!!! But Genuine sorrow over one’s sin is clearly expressed in the type of true repentance Jesus and John the Baptist required. Apparently those proposing an evidence-free-salvation haven’t read Jesus and John the Baptist’s sermon notes recorded in the gospels!
Others rightly believe the concept of “once saved always saved” refers the the biblical doctrine of perseverance.
Patrick says:
“About the origins of the idea, what I meant was that its current presence today came from ancient heretics through the influence of Calvinism, but that is only my impression. It may have just come directly from the ancient heretics.”
David replies:
PATRICK!!! Are you confessing your theology is based on your “impressions” of uncertainty!!?? We need to talk!! To the contrary, all theology should be based on a sound hermeneutic not simply your impressions!
Patrick says:
According to the Bible our receiving God's forgiveness is based on our works by condition, and by purchase is based entirely on the blood of Christ.
David replies:
Quite false. Haven’t you read that verse that clearly states salvation is not based on the filthy rags of our works righteousness?
I think you’re confusing the evidence of salvation which results in good works with a false works salvation.
Please read Ephesians, we are not saved ***by*** our works but ***for*** good works.
Patrick says:
The gift is offered to the unrighteous on condition that they turn to righteousness, and thereby the sins of the righteous are washed away by grace: "And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments." - Exodus 20:6
"When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live..." He whom God calls righteous is truly righteous, not self-righteous, and he that God says will live will surely live. "if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it." He who had eternal life, if he turns from God, shall die. The righteousness required by God is clearly defined in Scripture, and this is by the overabundant mercies of God. According to Scripture we are without excuse, and have the Law of God written on our hearts.
David replies:
I agree, assuming a sound interpretation
Patrick quotes:
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:20
David replies:
Jesus means our perfect righteous must come only from God through the finished work and perfect obedience of Jesus Christ
Patrick quotes:
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. - I John 2:29
Who here does not believe "Once Saved Always Saved"?
Posted : 28 Jan, 2019 01:41 PM
For a biblical explanation on the proper application grace and proper place of works see Eph. 2:8-10 and Col. 2:12
Our righteousness is about as useless as a filthy rag. Our works cannot save us and they cannot keep us saved! Works may be considered as love offerings presented to God. They may also serve as evidence of true repentance. See Isaiah 64:6
See also 1 John 2:3 Version
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
See also Romans 8:39. “...nothing in heaven or earth "shall be able to separate (them) from the love of God"
This is just one verse on the Perseverance of the saints (eternal security) or if you please, the original “once saved, always saved”. It only applies to those truly "born of God" or one truly “regenerated" by the Holy Spirit. And yes, many people can fake salvation, Judas did and others have as well. Judas never lost his salvation, he was never saved, he was a devil just as Jesus said, John 6:70
If you want, Patrick, you might list those verses seized by those who insist eternal security is losable and we’ll discuss. Yes, that’s right, careless preachers believe eternal security is temporal. Isn't that kinda contradictory??
