Please have a good look at the following thread. I was not on CDFF during this time. This is exactly what I continue to speak about here. You will notice that a young lady asks a question. The first response is a wall of scripture and then comes the "majority crowd" offering up their opinions. Again, I was not here at all during this time. Read the comments from LTM, Jude, TruthCarrier and so on. Notice the lack of Scripture. Then, at the start of page two the wall of Scripture is presented again. Please read the comments that follow.
Same thing, different day here at CDFF. That is what an angry mob looks like. I am recording this day against that mob. It makes no difference whether I am here in the mix or not. Those who continue to assert that I bring the trouble are liars.
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
God thru foreknowledge chose the church and those who believe to receive salvation. How did He choose us to salvation? Thru the Spirit and thru Faith. I fail to see anywhere in that verse where "grace precedes faith". Have a read thru Romans 5. It is a verse where we only have access into grace by faith in Christ, and it goes on into a very detailed explanation of the atonement thru faith in Christ for all those ungodly people who are under the curse of death thru Adam's transgression. Everybody is under the curse of death.
Romans 5
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
It means God used foreknowledge to make a plan of salvation thru His Son from the foundation of the world, and knew who would be in the book of life by grace thru faith that plan of salvation. God authored his will from the beginning and stamped it into history, from beginning to end. I believe He planned the whole book beforehand without our approval because He is a sovereign God, everything has happened precisely when it was supposed to, Jesus came precisely when God determined He should, and there is no doubt of that if you're a student of bible prophecy, but that does not exclude our ability to freely have faith. We did not read the book, we are "natural actors".
"What is the reason why in every case, in every man that is saved, faith is the great instrument of salvation? Is it not first because God has a right to choose what way of salvation he pleases, and he has chosen that men should be saved, not by their works, but by their faith in his dear Son? God has a right to give his mercy to whom he pleases; he has a right to give it when he pleases; he has a right to give it in what mode he pleases; and know ye this, O sons of men, that the decree of heaven is immutable, and standeth fast forever�"He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved; he that believeth not shall be damned." To this there shall be no exception; Jehovah has made the rule and it shall stand. If thou wouldst have salvation, "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved"; but if not, salvation is utterly impossible to thee. This is the appointed way; follow it, and it leads to heaven; refuse it, and thou must perish. This is God's sovereign determination, "He that believeth on him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed on the Son of God." Jehovah's will be done. If this be his method of grace, let us not kick against it. If he determines that faith shall save, so let it be; only, Good Master, create and increase our faith.
But while I attribute this to the sovereign choice of God, I do see, for Scripture plainly indicates it, a reason in the nature of things why faith should thus have been selected. The apostle tells us it is of faith that it might be of grace. If the condition of salvation had been either feeling or working, then, such is the depravity of our nature, that we should inevitably have attributed the merit of salvation to the working or the feeling. We should have claimed something whereof to glory. It matters not how low the condition may have been, man would have still considered that there was something required of him, that something came from him, and that, therefore, he might take some credit to himself. But no man, unless he be demented, ever claims credit for believing the truth. If he hears that which convinces him, he is convinced; and if he be persuaded, he is persuaded; but he feels that it could not well be otherwise. He attributes the effect to the truth and the influence used. He does not go about and boast because he believes what is so clear to him that he cannot doubt it. If he did so boast of spiritual faith, all thinking men would say at once, "Wherefore dost thou boast in the fact of having believed, and especially when this believing would never have been thine if it had not been for the force of the truth which convinced thee, and the working of the Spirit of God which constrained thee to believe?" Faith is chosen by Christ to wear the crown of salvation because�let me contradict myself�it refuses to wear the crown. It was Christ that saved the penitent woman, it was Christ that saved that blind beggar, but he takes the crown from off his own head, so dear is faith to him, and he puts the diadem upon the head of faith and says, "Thy faith hath saved thee," because he is absolutely certain that faith will never take the glory to herself, but will again lay the crown at the pierced feet, and say, "Not unto myself be glory, for thou hast done it; thou art the Saviour, and thou alone." In order, then, to illustrate and to protect the interests of sovereign grace, and to shut out all vain glorying, God has been pleased to make the way of salvation to be by faith, and by no other means."
Wasn't it just yesterday one certain fella was crying for "give honor when honor is due"? I assume meaning himself being due honor... Where is the honor here in posting something like this when it had nothing to do with you? Give it a rest and use the good knowledge God gave you wisely huh?
[A Good Servant of Christ Jesus]
[6] If you put these things before the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed.
[7] Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness;
[8] for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
[9] The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. [10] For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
Excellent case and point, false teachers hate truth.
As Nehemiah said there is nothing new under the sun, The pharisee didn't believe either. Until God changes the "angry mobs" hearts to see his truth, they will never believe his word without twisting and adding to it to suit their Arminianism / Pelagius beliefs.
"Titus 3:9. This is my admonition to you dear sister. Avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions,and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
This is all you do here dear one. I would urge you to repent. This OP has the right to ask a question and others have the right to respond as you have without disputing. You had your say so cant you just leave it at that? Do you really have to dispute with everyone? Do you really have to strive with all who dissagree with your position? Do you really need to be a contentious woman?
Do you know what scripture says about a contentious woman? I would encourage you to study about that and repent. "
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Yet, now you charge me with being the one who causes all of the contention. You charge me as a heretic. The issue is that the "majority position" here simply will not tolerate invasion into their comfort zone of "group think". It's very clear who the intolerant people are here. You all need to drop your stones and simply go back and study your Bibles. If you cannot hang in theological discussions, then you ought to leave this area of the forum quietly and come back when you can.
Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an incorrect or deviant decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative ideas or viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences.
Loyalty to the group requires individuals to avoid raising controversial issues or alternative solutions, and there is loss of individual creativity, uniqueness and independent thinking. The dysfunctional group dynamics of the "ingroup" produces an "illusion of invulnerability" (an inflated certainty that the right decision has been made). Thus the "ingroup" significantly overrates their own abilities in decision-making, and significantly underrates the abilities of their opponents (the "outgroup"). Wikipedia
