Thread: re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them?
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re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them?
Posted : 7 Oct, 2017 09:38 PM
I have, over the years, listened to various people espouse their various faith-related teachings and particular theological-based preachings... and so recently I have been listening to someone who teaches/preaches on something called 'Deliverance Ministry'... This is, as a concept, new to me.
Here are my understanding of the basic tenets of 'Deliverance Ministries':
PREMISE: 'People who profess salvation, can, and often do, come under the oppression of demons... In order for these 'saved' people to be released from there particular aspect of physical/spiritual/psychological bondage - there must be (what, seems to me, to be) an 'exorcism' of the demons from within the person.'
(And though I may be wrong - this is my personal understanding from having listened to quite a few videos, regarding this.)
First of all, may I say that it is not my intention to challenge anyone's belief concerning this particular topic... I just simply want to
1 - understand 'why?' so many people choose to believe that the Holy Spirt can reside within a person, alongside of demons... (to be cast 'out' of someone - must they not first 'be in' that person?)
2 - so does this mean that 'the person from whom the demon(s) are (supposedly) being cast out,
a) are not actually 'save' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit)?
b) are possibly saved (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit), but are participating in some sort of 'willful delusion' on their own, or other's, part OR
c) is there some other explanation that I haven't yet thought of to explain this 'casting out of demons from a person while they are professing to be 'saved/indwelt' by the Holy Spirit?'
I am very curious to hear about this, if anyone knows the answer - perhaps from being a part of this body of people who believe this ministry to be founded on biblical truths... can you explain your standing on this?
and also to hear from others as to personal opinions regarding these things...
My thanks to everyone for taking the time to share your thoughts... and God bless you...
re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them?
Posted : 23 Oct, 2017 02:51 AM
"The Holy of Holies was empty, as there was no ark and no cherubim."
Careful to not fall into idolatry, God cannot be shackled to mere objects.
Again, Jesus Himself considered the Temple and it's outer sections to be Holy... why else get so angry and act violently the ONE TIME He did such a thing? it's best to not argue with Him I'm thinking, if He considered it "the House of My Father" then it was... what's the point of having a house you don't dwell in?
re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them?
Posted : 23 Oct, 2017 03:46 PM
If "God" can't be shacked to objects; what would make you believe that he would be shackled to a building that he didn't command to be built, after he let the one that he did command, to be built, be destroyed?
Be careful not to fall into idolatry.
Why would he be shackled to a building that was somehow proclaimed to be a temple, even though his first born son called it something else.
If you want to agree with Yahshua; maybe you should call it what Yahshua called it.
re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them?
Posted : 23 Oct, 2017 07:08 PM
OoopPS!
I'm going to drop my argument.
I came to know YHWH, shortly before I was about to dismiss YHWH, as just another lie that parents tell their children, like about fairies and fat bearded gnomes and bunnies.
I caught my mother in three lies in her life, one about a fairy, one about a fat magic man, and one about a bunny.....you know....to make life fun for her children.
What prompted me to believe that my mother (the most honest person I know) was lying about YHWH, was the conflicting stories and lies that I grew up hearing from the churches I attended.
Logic kicked in; and I deduced that my mother was lying to me about YHWH....you know......to teach her children moral values.
Fortunately YHWH blessed me with enough logic to take it to the next level.
GLORY TO YHWH!
I realized that the whole reason that I questioned YHWH to begin with, was because I had listened to the lies of men.
I decided to give YHWH one more chance. I decided to read the book, as it was written, from beginning to end.
I first meditated for weeks to purge my mind of everything everyone had told me about YHWH,
It didn't work. I still struggle with purging the lies about YHWH from my mind to this day.
Long story short, nearing the end of the Bible, I didn't need men, nor even the Bible anymore to tell me that YHWH is real. I knew for myself.
That said.......
Nowhere in the Bible do I see that YHWH can't be in the presence of sin.
It appears that after 35 years of searching hard for the truth; I'm still just getting past some of the lies I was told as a child.
re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them?
Posted : 25 Oct, 2017 09:48 AM
Jesus is translated Joshua in Hebrew and means **GOD IS HELP**!! **JOSHUA** in Hebrew is phonetically pronounced *YESHUA* since the *J* in Hebrew is pronounced *YEH**.
Matthew 1:21-23: The angel of the Lord said, " She will give birth to a Son, and you are to give Him the name **JESUS** {Which means **GOD IS HELP**}, because He will save His people from their sins." All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said {In Isaiah 7:14 below} through the prophet: "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a Son and they will all Him **IMMANUEL** which means **GOD WITH US**!"
Luke 2:9,10: An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them. The angel said, "I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Today in the town of David a **SAVIOR** has been born to you; He is the **MESSIAH**, the **LORD**!"
Isaiah 7:14: "The Lord Himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a Son, and will call Him **IMMANUEL!" {Which means **GOD WITH US**!}
Isaiah 9:6: For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor and **MIGHTY GOD**!
Titus 2:13,14: We wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**--the glorious appearing of our **GREAT GOD** AND **SAVIOR**, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for Himself a people that are **HIS VERY OWN**, eager to do what is good!!
Isaiah 53:5,6: He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on Him, and by His wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to their own way; and the Lord has laid on **HIM** the iniquity of us all!!
I Peter 2:24,25: He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness "By His wounds you have been healed." For "You were like sheep going astray," but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your soul!
Here Peter confirms Jesus is the subject of Isaiah 53:5,6 since Peter quotes passages in Isaiah 53:5,6 **TWO** times above!!
Dueteronomy 18:17-19: The Lord said to Moses, "I will raise up a Prophet like you from among your fellow Israelites, and I will put My words in His mouth. He will tell them everything I command Him. I Myself will call to account {Like TNT} who does listen to My words that the Prophet speaks in My name!!"
John 14:21-24: Jesus says, "Whoever has My commands and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I too will love them... Anyone who loves will obey My teaching. my Father will love them and We will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love Me {Like TNT} will not obey My teaching. These words you hear are not My own, they belong to the Father who sent Me!"
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven on **ON EARTH** {Not Popes} has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, an teaching them to obey **EVERYTHING I COMMANDED YOU**. And surely I am with you **ALWAYS**!"
According to Revelation 22:3 there will be only **2 THRONES** for the Father and the **LAMB** in the Heavenly Eternal New Jerusalem:
NOTE: Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is called the **LAMB** 30 times in Revelation.
Revelation 3:21: Jesus says, "To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with Me on **MY THRONE***, just as I was victorious and sat down with My Father on **HIS THRONE**!"
Revelation 2:17: Jesus says, "I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to the one who receives it!"
John 20:27-29: Jesus said to Thomas, "Put your finger here" see My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side! **STOP DOUBTING AND BELIEVE!" Thomas said to Him, "**MY LORD AND MY GOD**!" Then Jesus told him, Because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed!!"
Revelation 5:9,13: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe language and people and nation... To **HIM** who sits on the throne and to the **LAMB** be praise and honor and glory and power **FOR EVER AND EVER**!"
re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them?
Posted : 26 Oct, 2017 06:58 PM
It is impossible for a saved/born again/holy spirit filled person to be pocessed by a demon (fallen angel or spirit of)...oppressed...Yes...pocessed..No!!!
1 John 4:4 b "greater is he that lives in me than he that is in the world"...
re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them?
Posted : 26 Oct, 2017 10:53 PM
Yep, opression happens when the individual leaves outer doors open, posession happens when the inner door is left open. The former merely influences you, the latter controls you.
re: 'Deliverance Ministries' Can a 'saved person' (ie. indwelt by the Holy Spirit) also have demons which need to be cast out of them?
Posted : 27 Oct, 2017 07:00 AM
Thank you Hark for posting your testimony even in such a forum topic discussion as this...I praise Papa God that one of mans traditions of a celebrations of " Reformation" day Oct 31st is a Truthful one and full of the Spirit of and about God...it is because of this event in history that "we the people" can buy, own, learn, discuss, proclaim, evangelise and testify...All praise and glory to Papa God!!!
Rambo...I get what your meaning...however doors are not the reason...opression happens because Satan wants to kill us...not because we have left a door open...the closer we get to Papa God the angrier he gets...remember Job...pocession happens because a person that is not saved and filled with the holy spirit is living in Sin...a sinful and ungodly life is what demons/fallen angels cling to and enter into... I've seen true demonic pocession and it's ugly!!!...Let us all remember to always put on the full armour of God...for the devil seeks to conquer and destroy!!!...
