Author Thread: Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
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Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 16 Mar, 2014 05:27 AM

Hello everyone



I find that many 'churches' SAY they believe the Word of GOD,and say they believe the New Covenant;Yet on the Biblical matter concerning 'SHEPHERDING' the flock of GOD what is being proclaimed and shown to the people.



Many times people go back to the Old Covenant to justify the position for the ONE man show/ pastor,yet the NEW COVENANT NEVER has a place for the ONE man show.



Let us look at a few Scripture concerning the PLURALITY of ELDERS in order to have a right understanding of the role of SHEPHERDS.



The term 'ELDERS' is found 60 times in the New Covenant,and is used concerning Shepherding the people of GOD.





Mat_15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

Mat_16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Mat_21:23 And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?

Mat_26:3 Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,

Mat_26:47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.

Mat_26:57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.

Mat_26:59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

Mat_27:1 When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:

Mat_27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Mat_27:12 And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders, he answered nothing.

Mat_27:20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.

Mat_27:41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,

Mat_28:12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,

Mar_7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

Mar_7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

Mar_8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Mar_11:27 And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders,

Mar_14:43 And immediately, while he yet spake, cometh Judas, one of the twelve, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders.

Mar_14:53 And they led Jesus away to the high priest: and with him were assembled all the chief priests and the elders and the scribes.

Mar_15:1 And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.

Luk_7:3 And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant.

Luk_9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Luk_20:1 And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders,

Luk_22:52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?

Luk_22:66 And as soon as it was day, the elders of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,

Act_4:5 And it came to pass on the morrow, that their rulers, and elders, and scribes,

Act_4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Act_4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.

Act_6:12 And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,

Act_11:30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

Act_14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

Act_15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Act_15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

Act_15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

Act_15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

Act_15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

Act_16:4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.

Act_20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

Act_21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

Act_22:5 As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

Act_23:14 And they came to the chief priests and elders, and said, We have bound ourselves under a great curse, that we will eat nothing until we have slain Paul.

Act_24:1 And after five days Ananias the high priest descended with the elders, and with a certain orator named Tertullus, who informed the governor against Paul.

Act_25:15 About whom, when I was at Jerusalem, the chief priests and the elders of the Jews informed me, desiring to have judgment against him.

1Ti_5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Tit_1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

Heb_11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Jas_5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

1Pe_5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

Rev_4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Rev_4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

Rev_5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Rev_5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Rev_5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Rev_5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Rev_5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Rev_7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev_7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Rev_11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev_14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Rev_19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.



Matthew 13 verses found 13 matches

Mark 7 verses found 7 matches

Luke 5 verses found 5 matches

Acts 18 verses found 18 matches

1 Timothy 1 verse found 1 match

Titus 1 verse found 1 match

Hebrews 1 verse found 1 match

James 1 verse found 1 match

1 Peter 1 verse found 1 match

Revelation 12 verses found 12 matches



In 1st Peter 5:1-2 Peter encourages the ELDERS (plural) to be SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD and not a 'pastor'(singular).





1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

1Pe 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;



Likewise Paul also encourages the ELDERS (plural) to SHEPHERD the flock of GOD not a pastor(singular).

Look into verses 17 & 28,the role of the ELDERS is to be SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD.



Act 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

Act 20:18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,

Act 20:19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:

Act 20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,

Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Act 20:22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:

Act 20:23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.

Act 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Act 20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

Act 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.



Now that the Elders are to be the Shepherds,why does the so called 'church' have a pastor (singular) usurping the place of the ELDERS.

So then,is the 'church' in unbelief or is the Word of GOD wrong?



Do we have the authority to tell the 'church' to repent and believe the Gospel by returning to the Plurality or Elders;OR do we CHANGE the Word of GOD to fit the 'churches' understanding of the role of ELDERS along with their understanding of Biblical Shepherding.



Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.



Shalom

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Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 16 Mar, 2014 06:00 AM

:ROFL: what is the name of your sect or cult?

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Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 16 Mar, 2014 09:40 AM

Versavia - your continued insults and shouting down of others here is pretty annoying. No wonder so few people post here and so many leave.

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Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 16 Mar, 2014 03:14 PM

Hi versavia:

I hope you are well.

Yup i still love you.

Nope no cult,just the Word of GOD.



Shalom

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Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 16 Mar, 2014 11:53 PM

Leave your cult, brother, and join my church here: www.harvest.org

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Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 17 Mar, 2014 02:36 AM

Hi versavia:



Yep,you are right YOUR so called 'church',not the BODY of Yeshua.



So sad,so very sad.

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Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 17 Mar, 2014 07:15 AM

God said in the Bible that those who believe in His Son (who is God like the Father too) are the sons of God and the Body of Jesus called as believers/the Church of God.



My Church like all Christians Churches believe in His Son. Thus we are the Church of God.

God said that in the Bible. Should we listen to you or our God?!



Those who do NOT belong to the Son of God -our Creator- have another father devil.



Let's read about this father devil:

10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does NOT practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother�s righteous.



13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.



1 John 3

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DontHitThatMark

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Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 17 Mar, 2014 09:38 AM

I believe that the whole "pastor" mentality is leftovers from Roman Catholicism's Priest caste and should be abandoned, it's probably one of the most dangerous traditions that the christian body has right now. "Pastors" should exist, but they should not be given the kind of authority and reverence that they generally receive. At best, they should just be another "elder" who uses the spiritual gift of teaching/preaching.



:peace::peace:

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Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 17 Mar, 2014 02:30 PM

Hi DHTM:



Thank you for your answer.

You are moving towards understanding the plurality of Elders.



Most of the 'christians' have never seen nor heard of Biblical Eldership,nor have they heard or seen Plurality of Elders as the function of the Elders has been usurped by the so called pastor



To justify their position the so called pastors almost always go to Moses with the seventy elders,saying see,see Moses was a senior pastor and the eldesr were there to serve him.

This same men will never go to the NEW COVENANT,as there is NOT ONE mention of the Elders being under a pastor.



The body of Messiah has been hijacked and needs the people to be praying for Yeshua to raise up ELDERS for His body.



Shalom



The people are either practicing catholicism, or judaism, for i do not see them believing the Word of GOD Almighty when they meet together.



Remember YHWH tells us how He wants to be worshipped,and how we are to be meeting together.

1 st Corinthians 11:18 thru 1st Corinthians 14:40

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Matthew75

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Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 17 Mar, 2014 10:10 PM

Interesting posts from everybody.



Personally, I have never been to a church that had only a pastor. Almost all the churches I have attended have a pastor, deacons, elders, assistant pastors, individual ministry leaders, etc.



This structure does not come out of the Catholic church but rather out of Exodus 18.



This structure just works. Is works in the church as well as it does in business. Businesses have a CEO, a broad, and a hierarchy of managers. The pastor is NOT the end all be all of the church but simply provides direction like the CEO of a business. The pastor is also the figure head and bears the most burden as anything that happens in the church comes back on him in the eyes of the public. And when pastors themselves do something wrong, it reflects badly on the entire church.



It is not a one man show. If you attend such a church as to have a one man show, I would strongly advise to find a different church.

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Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 18 Mar, 2014 01:39 PM

Hi Matthew

Thank you for your reply:



I do believe you have written this.

Personally, I have never been to a church that had only a pastor. Almost all the churches I have attended have a pastor, deacons, elders, assistant pastors, individual ministry leaders, etc.



Might i ask you,where would i find an ASSISTANT pastor in the Word of GOD.

I know you will not find that as that is something which man has made up.



Most of what constitutes the 'church cannot be found within the NEW COVENANT which we are under.

Most of the 'church's structure is from the OLD COVENANT.

Just because something might SEEM to be working, does not mean that it has been ordained of GOD.

IF you cannot find the 'church' and its structure within the NEW COVENANT,what then should one do,

Should one go to the OLD COVENANT in order to justify their UNBELIEF.

Do we bring back the Levitical order of priests.

Do we begin 'tithing'

We should bring back the ENTIRE law as James says to break one point we break it all.



OR do we confess our UNBELIEF,That we have not been believing what GOD has said in His Word about the way we are to be meeting.

Than we should look into the NEW COVENANT and ask YHWH for His power to meet as He has ordained in His Word...1st Cor.11:20 thru 1st Cor. 14:30...

The problem is that most people have become acclimated to meeting apart from the Word of GOD,and they are not being encouraged to read the Word themselves.

Nor are they told to be bringing something to share with the body from the Word of GOD.



I do not believe the so called 'church' would take the Biblical exhortation as i have written,because too much is at stake for the so called pastor(s).

Remember the 501c3 CORPORATE tax exempt status.



I do hope you and others would read the book 'BIBLICAL ELDERSHIP' written by Alexander Strauch.



Shalom

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