Thread: Young's Experiment to Prove/Disprove God's Omnipresence
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Young's Experiment to Prove/Disprove God's Omnipresence
Posted : 28 Jul, 2011 07:32 AM
It's said that God is everywhere all-the-time and knows everything. A little after 2am last night tucked up all cozy in bed trying to sleep it came to me that a scientific experiment from quantum mechanics can be used to test this theory. Maybe somewhere someone has already thought of this, so if it's old news my apologies.
The Young "Double-Slash" Experiment consists of firing a laser beam through 2 slashes (the word actually used I think will be censored here so am saying 'slash' in its place) onto a wall opposite to show how light particles, photons, behave like both a wave and a single particle. The key to the experiment is that when observed, light behaves one way, when not observed, another. And this is one of the key points to quantum mechanics and why Niels Bohr, the father of the orthodox 'Copenhagen Interpretation' of quantum physics once said, "Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it". He and Einstein once exchanged: Einstein "Do you really believe if no one's around to see it, the moon vanishes?" To which Bohr replied, "Can you prove it doesn't?" And of course Einstein couldn't. Einstein famously didn't care for quantum mechanics because of problems like that. :)
My variation on the Young experiment conjectures that since light can be observed behaving differently, God cannot be omnipresent, since He would always be the One Observer. Therefore making light behave one way all the time. Since only in God's absence would its behaviour change.
My intent is not to disprove whether God exists but rather question some of His supposed attributes like seeing everything all-the-time reasoning: If God sees everything all the time and by inference knows everything going on at any given moment then why numerous verses in the Bible where God is looking for someone or asking people questions such as in the Garden looking for the hidden Adam and Eve after eating from the forbidden Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil; or asking Able where Cain was, and so on. Most I've asked this of answer it's a literary device of some sort, or God 'playing dumb' but I feel that though God is real, claiming He knows everything and sees everything everywhere isn't backed up by actual Scripture.
Young's Experiment to Prove/Disprove God's Omnipresence
Posted : 12 Nov, 2011 09:00 AM
Very interesting question. From what we are told God is of the spirit world and does not see the way we do. Also God is light...so how would light interact with light? And finally from what I understand, the reason God asked questions of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel was to get them thinking about where they were ... apart from Him already experiencing the co.nsequences of sin, i.e. shame and fear. In the form of Jesus He did the same thing...ask questions and tell stories. All have a way of getting us past our defenses, thinking about our condition and hopefully reasoning that we do need a savior.
This was a wonderful question you asked and you are using the gift God has given you as an intellect....keep asking...keep knocking...and I believe He will blow your mind!...in a good way
Young's Experiment to Prove/Disprove God's Omnipresence
Posted : 14 Apr, 2012 05:20 PM
You obviously haven't seen The Matrix. The Matrix can see anything that anyone in it can see at any time. Then those people can be controlled (turned into agents in the film) to do it's will.
Even if you do not believe in God you can still be used whether you are aware or not.
As for the light you are talking about blue shift, then it opens up another world of universe changing shape etc. Thing is it doesn't matter how intellectual someone might kid themselves they are, ultimately we all occupy a very limited space which limits our knowledge. God won't ever allow humanity to be so clever that it could ever challenge things that only he should know.
Like Einstein said, does it matter whether the moon disappears or not?
God can do what he likes, as he is the pure energy that powers the universe and everything in it.
If God wanted to ask Cain a rhetorical question that was up to him.
Young's Experiment to Prove/Disprove God's Omnipresence
Posted : 28 May, 2012 01:45 AM
Good Job Jen, Now Sir, It's 300 AM. I can't go into this as I would like to, sorry.
But first let me say the whole problem starts right from the beginning with your whole conclusion based on a faulty premise to begin with.
You were right about one thing Bohr premise is pure "conjecture"
Which means, "the formation or expression of an opinion or a theory without sufficient evidence for proof... It's pure speculation."
You can speculate that there is no such thing as gravity, but go stand under a hoisted 1000lbs. safe thats about to be released.
Maybe at that time Einstein could not of proved that the moon does not vanish when not being observed, but neither could Bohr prove it does.
To make a statment as if it is true is deception, that statment being "that light when observed behaves oneway, and when it is not observed behaves another way" This is your faulty
premise.
Now Though Einstein could not prove it at the time, even though the effects of the moon are clearly seen even when we can't see the moon. ie, tides, etc.
There is Someone who can prove that it does not vanish, and that is God Himself,
35"Once for all I have sworn by my holiness, I will not lie to David.
36. His offspring shall endure forever, his throne as long as the sun before me.
37 Like the moon it shall be established forever, a faithful witness in the skies." Selah 38 (PS. 89:35-37).
God's covenant with David regarding his descendants was as certain as the establishment (fixed) of the sun (V. 36) and the moon in the heavens (cf. 33:14-26).
And the Bible gives you the evidence that it is the Word of God with many infallible proofs. Of which I touch on just a little do to space, on my profile.
Jen is correct, Gen. 3:9 "Where are you?" The question was God's way of bringing man to explain why he was hiding, rather than expressing ignorance about man's location. Shame, remorse, confusion, guilt, and fear all lead to their clandestine behavior. There was no place to hide. See Ps 139:1-12
And Marcus, Sorry but I have no ideal what your talking about, you may want to cut down on your watching TV, and God is not pure energy, He is a person.
God is omnipresent, and only God is omnipresent.
And Matt 18:20 not only shows God to be omnipresent, but also shows Jesus to be God,
for Jesus said, 20"For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them."
Jesus would have to be omnipresent to do that, if a group of christian gather in Boston for church discipline, another in Japan, another in the jungles of Peru, another in Russia... you get my point I hope.
Ps 139:8 Tells us, God was always watching over David, and thus it was impossible to do anything before which God is not a spectator, that's a sobering thought.
In fact the Bible tells us in Is 55:9 that the heavens go on and on forever, never ending. But the Bible also teaches that the heavens cannot contain God 1 Kings 8:27, therefore God is past forever in time and in forever space,
In other words God far transcended containment by anything in all creation, even the endless heavens,
wrap your brain around that Mr. Bhor.
Oh By the way God knows the unknowable, but that's for another time.
Young's Experiment to Prove/Disprove God's Omnipresence
Posted : 28 May, 2012 01:45 AM
Good Job Jen, Now Sir, It's 300 AM. I can't go into this as I would like to, sorry.
But first let me say the whole problem starts right from the beginning with your whole conclusion based on a faulty premise to begin with.
You were right about one thing Bohr premise is pure "conjecture"
Which means, "the formation or expression of an opinion or a theory without sufficient evidence for proof... It's pure speculation."
You can speculate that there is no such thing as gravity, but go stand under a hoisted 1000lbs. safe thats about to be released.
Maybe at that time Einstein could not of proved that the moon does not vanish when not being observed, but neither could Bohr prove it does.
To make a statment as if it is true is deception, that statment being "that light when observed behaves oneway, and when it is not observed behaves another way" This is your faulty
premise.
Now Though Einstein could not prove it at the time, even though the effects of the moon are clearly seen even when we can't see the moon. ie, tides, etc.
There is Someone who can prove that it does not vanish, and that is God Himself,
35"Once for all I have sworn by my holiness, I will not lie to David.
36. His offspring shall endure forever, his throne as long as the sun before me.
37 Like the moon it shall be established forever, a faithful witness in the skies." Selah 38 (PS. 89:35-37).
God's covenant with David regarding his descendants was as certain as the establishment (fixed) of the sun (V. 36) and the moon in the heavens (cf. 33:14-26).
And the Bible gives you the evidence that it is the Word of God with many infallible proofs. Of which I touch on just a little do to space, on my profile.
Jen is correct, Gen. 3:9 "Where are you?" The question was God's way of bringing man to explain why he was hiding, rather than expressing ignorance about man's location. Shame, remorse, confusion, guilt, and fear all lead to their clandestine behavior. There was no place to hide. See Ps 139:1-12
And Marcus, Sorry but I have no ideal what your talking about, you may want to cut down on your watching TV, and God is not pure energy, He is a person.
God is omnipresent, and only God is omnipresent.
And Matt 18:20 not only shows God to be omnipresent, but also shows Jesus to be God,
for Jesus said, 20"For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them."
Jesus would have to be omnipresent to do that, if a group of christian gather in Boston for church discipline, another in Japan, another in the jungles of Peru, another in Russia... you get my point I hope.
Ps 139:8 Tells us, God was always watching over David, and thus it was impossible to do anything before which God is not a spectator, that's a sobering thought.
In fact the Bible tells us in Is 55:9 that the heavens go on and on forever, never ending. But the Bible also teaches that the heavens cannot contain God 1 Kings 8:27, therefore God is past forever in time and in forever space,
In other words God far transcended containment by anything in all creation, even the endless heavens,
wrap your brain around that Mr. Bhor.
Oh By the way God knows the unknowable, but that's for another time.
Young's Experiment to Prove/Disprove God's Omnipresence
Posted : 28 May, 2012 01:47 AM
Good Job Jen, Now Sir, It's 300 AM. I can't go into this as I would like to, sorry.
But first let me say the whole problem starts right from the beginning with your whole conclusion based on a faulty premise to begin with.
You were right about one thing Bohr premise is pure "conjecture"
Which means, "the formation or expression of an opinion or a theory without sufficient evidence for proof... It's pure speculation."
You can speculate that there is no such thing as gravity, but go stand under a hoisted 1000lbs. safe thats about to be released.
Maybe at that time Einstein could not of proved that the moon does not vanish when not being observed, but neither could Bohr prove it does.
To make a statment as if it is true is deception, that statment being "that light when observed behaves oneway, and when it is not observed behaves another way" This is your faulty
premise.
Now Though Einstein could not prove it at the time, even though the effects of the moon are clearly seen even when we can't see the moon. ie, tides, etc.
There is Someone who can prove that it does not vanish, and that is God Himself,
35"Once for all I have sworn by my holiness, I will not lie to David.
36. His offspring shall endure forever, his throne as long as the sun before me.
37 Like the moon it shall be established forever, a faithful witness in the skies." Selah 38 (PS. 89:35-37).
God's covenant with David regarding his descendants was as certain as the establishment (fixed) of the sun (V. 36) and the moon in the heavens (cf. 33:14-26).
And the Bible gives you the evidence that it is the Word of God with many infallible proofs. Of which I touch on just a little do to space, on my profile.
Jen is correct, Gen. 3:9 "Where are you?" The question was God's way of bringing man to explain why he was hiding, rather than expressing ignorance about man's location. Shame, remorse, confusion, guilt, and fear all lead to their clandestine behavior. There was no place to hide. See Ps 139:1-12
And Marcus, Sorry but I have no ideal what your talking about, you may want to cut down on your watching TV, and God is not pure energy, He is a person.
God is omnipresent, and only God is omnipresent.
And Matt 18:20 not only shows God to be omnipresent, but also shows Jesus to be God,
for Jesus said, 20"For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them."
Jesus would have to be omnipresent to do that, if a group of christian gather in Boston for church discipline, another in Japan, another in the jungles of Peru, another in Russia... you get my point I hope.
Ps 139:8 Tells us, God was always watching over David, and thus it was impossible to do anything before which God is not a spectator, that's a sobering thought.
In fact the Bible tells us in Is 55:9 that the heavens go on and on forever, never ending. But the Bible also teaches that the heavens cannot contain God 1 Kings 8:27, therefore God is past forever in time and in forever space,
In other words God far transcended containment by anything in all creation, even the endless heavens,
wrap your brain around that Mr. Bhor.
Oh By the way God knows the unknowable, but that's for another time.
Young's Experiment to Prove/Disprove God's Omnipresence
Posted : 28 May, 2012 01:48 AM
Good Job Jen, Now Sir, It's 300 AM. I can't go into this as I would like to, sorry.
But first let me say the whole problem starts right from the beginning with your whole conclusion based on a faulty premise to begin with.
You were right about one thing Bohr premise is pure "conjecture"
Which means, "the formation or expression of an opinion or a theory without sufficient evidence for proof... It's pure speculation."
You can speculate that there is no such thing as gravity, but go stand under a hoisted 1000lbs. safe thats about to be released.
Maybe at that time Einstein could not of proved that the moon does not vanish when not being observed, but neither could Bohr prove it does.
To make a statment as if it is true is deception, that statment being "that light when observed behaves oneway, and when it is not observed behaves another way" This is your faulty
premise.
Now Though Einstein could not prove it at the time, even though the effects of the moon are clearly seen even when we can't see the moon. ie, tides, etc.
There is Someone who can prove that it does not vanish, and that is God Himself,
35"Once for all I have sworn by my holiness, I will not lie to David.
36. His offspring shall endure forever, his throne as long as the sun before me.
37 Like the moon it shall be established forever, a faithful witness in the skies." Selah 38 (PS. 89:35-37).
God's covenant with David regarding his descendants was as certain as the establishment (fixed) of the sun (V. 36) and the moon in the heavens (cf. 33:14-26).
And the Bible gives you the evidence that it is the Word of God with many infallible proofs. Of which I touch on just a little do to space, on my profile.
Jen is correct, Gen. 3:9 "Where are you?" The question was God's way of bringing man to explain why he was hiding, rather than expressing ignorance about man's location. Shame, remorse, confusion, guilt, and fear all lead to their clandestine behavior. There was no place to hide. See Ps 139:1-12
And Marcus, Sorry but I have no ideal what your talking about, you may want to cut down on your watching TV, and God is not pure energy, He is a person.
God is omnipresent, and only God is omnipresent.
And Matt 18:20 not only shows God to be omnipresent, but also shows Jesus to be God,
for Jesus said, 20"For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them."
Jesus would have to be omnipresent to do that, if a group of christian gather in Boston for church discipline, another in Japan, another in the jungles of Peru, another in Russia... you get my point I hope.
Ps 139:8 Tells us, God was always watching over David, and thus it was impossible to do anything before which God is not a spectator, that's a sobering thought.
In fact the Bible tells us in Is 55:9 that the heavens go on and on forever, never ending. But the Bible also teaches that the heavens cannot contain God 1 Kings 8:27, therefore God is past forever in time and in forever space,
In other words God far transcended containment by anything in all creation, even the endless heavens,
wrap your brain around that Mr. Bhor.
Oh By the way God knows the unknowable, but that's for another time.
Young's Experiment to Prove/Disprove God's Omnipresence
Posted : 29 May, 2012 05:29 AM
Since im new here ill say that I have an extensive background both in the sciences and in biblical doctrine.
The issues I have being both well trained in the scientific method and in religion is that God. being a spirit, lives outside our material world. Science relys on duplication of experimental results. Which , if the theory is correct should happen,, BUT God doesnt live by physical laws. He MADE the physical laws which is why science fails in proving His existance.
You cannot apply meters, yard sticks,, observating devices,, etco to the spiritual world as it does not follow the established physical laws that the material world does. Which is why Faith is such a big factor.
I personally have NO doubt of Gods existance.. the complexities of both quantum mechanics,, which I do have a limited knowlege of.. and biology, and chemisty,, convinced me in a intelligent creater which is just a short step to God, however it still requires a faith that is independent of my scientific training to truely believe in Him and Christ.
Young's Experiment to Prove/Disprove God's Omnipresence
Posted : 7 Feb, 2013 10:30 PM
Let me sum up your 'experiment' quite quickly...
Since God's presence only 'exists' in those that 'believe' in him - I would simply put it that... sorry - this is too simple for me... (my IQ as per the military is 178)
