I was talking to a good frind of mine I have known over 15 years. He was telling me about a "1st date" he went on with a women who told him up front "she will never submit, no man will ever tell her what to do." It was interesting it was the first thing he told me about the date. His question to me was is she a fixer upper or should he walk away. Something bothered him about what she said but he could not put his finger on it.
I told him to RUN because she does not fear God. It is one thing to struggle to do what the word says but another to pick and choose the parts of the bible you will follow.
There are some things in the bible I wish God had consulted me on (joke).
1. How much submission should be evident during dating?
2. What does submission in marriage look like for you (give an example please)
You know, it really all depends on WHAT you are submitting TO ... is it of God or of the world ... is it out of love or out of fear ... is it right or is it wrong?
I would never ask or expect a woman to submit to me as her husband in doing something that was a violation of God's will and love and my loving her as Christ loves "the church and neither would any man of God "worth his salt and light" before God!!! :hearts::hearts::hearts: ... and this should be the same for a woman of God's expections of a man of God's submission to her and God in their partnership as husband and wife, both respecting and loving each other.
many women have real trouble with even the idea of submission.
I have to agree with steve on this if the man is Godly and following Christ and acting in love it is easy to submit if he is slipping from those ways it is more difficult but I think we must then pray for him even more and still submit.
submission in marriage looks the same as submission in Christ and to the church--if you can do one -you can do the other...both take action-an act of loving obedience
1. How much submission should be evident during dating?
NONE!!!!! None whatsoever. The man is not your husband, therefore he is not your leader designated by a covenant before God because there has been no covenant yet at all. When you are engaged, that is when submission starts.
2. What does submission in marriage look like for you (give an example please)
The particular modern definition of submit that seems to relate more closely to the origin of the word is, "to defer to another's judgment, opinion, decision, etc." I believe that men and women are created different but equal, each with different talents or gifts. I believe that men and women complete each other. Husbands should listen to their wives and give consideration to their wives opinions or feelings or thoughts on a matter, but ultimately wives should defer to their husbands for the "final say" in the matter.
An example, not specifically relating to marriage but more allegorical, is what I always say about designing a house.
I think that every house should be designed by a man and a woman. The woman can see the whole picture and what layout makes sense and how things function with the utmost efficiency. Men can see what is practical structurally, what works or doesn't work, and how it can be done. In other words, the woman should give input on the design and show the man her vision, and the man should listen and carefully consider but ultimately be the one finalizing the plan and putting it into action based on feasibility and structural integrity.
When men ask if I'll be a submissive wife, my hackles go up. They shouldn't have to ask-either they don't really know me or they have some really sick concept of submission.
Why should a man be asking if I will submit? Is he ready to die for me? Because if he'd read the whole context, he'd find out that he has a role in the relationship too. And his role could cost him his life.
How much submission should be evident during dating?
Depends on the dating stage, but we should all submit to one another... in that way submission is a form of respect and deference-"I like you and want to be with you, so we can go to your favorite restaurant instead of the one I suggested." (to which a good man's response should be, "How about going to your favorite restaurant next time?") That would be a mild form of submission, and could be seen in any part of dating. "Submission" as in doing whatever the man says no matter how detrimental or disagreeable it is to you or others-that's not Biblical and shouldn't be seen even in marriages. (A man who loves his wife as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it won't as a woman to do something that will hurt her or others in the name of "submission".)
A woman who finds herself in this situation isn't obligated to follow the man in disobedience to God:
Biblical submission: above scenario:
God God
Man ^ Man
Woman |
Woman
Hope the diagram above works with spaces. When the man steps out from God's authority, he also steps out of authority over the woman, if she remains obedient to God. If she steps out from under God along with the man, they are both in disobedience to God. She can still be submissive in other areas, but will not disobey God in order to obey her husband.
But if the man really loves God and his wife and is in submission to God, then the wife will acquiesce or they will reach a compromise in situations where she and her husband disagree. To me, that's Biblical submission.
in a list, as long as one is submitted to the next, everything is well. If the man steps out from under God, he also steps out from over woman. (In the diagram at that point the list should have man over to the side and woman directly under obedience to God.)
