The Phairisees of Jesus' day employed an elborate system of Biblical interpretation they called Oral Torah. It would be fine in and of itself, however they insisted a person must adhere to their interpretations of Scripture otherwise forfeit eternal life. How is this any different than Reformed Theology who claims Church Tradition as their Oral Torah and all must adhere to their interpretations or forfeit eternal life. The Trinity doctrine is probably the best example of this neo shenanigan. While the Doctrine of the Trinity is not explicitly taught in Scripture, these Neo Pharisees insist you believe their interpretation of Scripture pointing to a Trinity or forfeit your soul to the eternal flames of hell. >>>Please people, beware of these wolves in sheeps' clothing. Just follow the simple teachings of Jesus our Messiah and God will take care of you<<<
Enough with the vague accusations; be specific; what is it you need or don't understand? I will do what I can to fulfill a reasonable request. However your last post is nothing more than an ad hominem attack.
**WE WAIT FOR THE GLORIOUS COMING OF OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR, JESUS CHRUST**
Jesus is called **GOD** 7 times in God's Word and is called **LORD** over 200 times in the New Testament, and is **WORSHIPED** 12 times in the New Testament, and God's Word tells us to only **WORSHIP GOD**!! While the holy spirit is never called **GOD** or **LORD** in God's Word and is **NEVER WORSHIPED** in God's Word!!
And in Hebrews 1:1-3,6,8; Paul is inspired to write: "In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by His powerful word... God says, "Let all God's angels **WORSHIP HIM**!!" and about His Son God says, "**YOUR THRONE**, **O GOD** will last for ever and ever!!"
Revelation 3:21,22: Jesus says, "To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with Me on **MY THRONE**, just as I overcame and sat down with **MY FATHER ON HIS THRONE**!!
These are the **ONLY 2 THRONES** in the eternal New Jerusalem as per Revelation 22:3 below!!! The holy spirit who many say are CO-EQUAL** with **GOD OUR FATHER** and our **LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST** does not have a **THRONE** in our **ETERNAL HOME IN THE NEW JERUSALEM**!!
NOTE: Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is called the **LAMB** 30 times in the Book of Revelation!
Revelation 22:3: The **THRONE OF GOD** and of the **LAMB** will be in the City! {In our **ETERNAL** Home in the New Jerusalem}
Revelation 21:22-23: I did not see a temple in the City, because the **LORD GOD ALMIGHTY** and the **LAMB** are its temple. The City does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of **GOD** gives it light and the **LAMB** is its Lamp!!
Isaiah 9:6,7: For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, **MIGHTY GOD** and Prince of Peace. Of the greatness of His government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's **THRONE** and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and **FOREVER**. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this!
John 1:1-4: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the **WORD WAS GOD** He was with God in the beginning. **THROUGH HIM** all things were made. In Him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
Colossians 1:15-18: The Son is the image of the invisible God. In Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created **THROUGH HIM** and **FOR HIM**!! He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the **HEAD** of the body, the church!!
John 1:18: No one has ever seen God, **BUT THE ONE AND ONLY SON**!! who is **HIMSELF GOD** and in closest relationship with the Father, has made Him known!!
Titus 2:13-14: We wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**--the glorious appearing of our great **GOD AND SAVIOR**, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to glorify Himself a people that are **HIS VERY OWN**, eager to do what is good!
John 10:27-30: Jesus says, "My sheep listen to My voice, I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me is **GREATER THAN ALL**; no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are **ONE**!"
John 20:27-29: Jesus said to Thomas, "Put your finger her, see My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe." Thomas said to Jesus, "**MY LORD** and **MY GOD**!: Then Jesus told him, Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet believed!"
Philippians 2:5-11: Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus. Who being in very nature **GOD**, did not consider **Equality with God something to be grasped... He humbled Himself--even death on a c ross! Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him a name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that**JESUS IS LORD**, to the glory of God the father!!
Colossians 2:9,10: For in Christ **ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE DEITY LIVES** in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the **HEAD**over every power and authority!!
I John 5:20: We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him {The *FATHER*} who is true. and we are in Him who is true by being in **HIS SON** Jesus Christ. He is **TRUE GOD** and eternal life!!
We must all pray that *SAD*lup will accept our Great God, Savior and Teacher, Jesus Christ, and then he can change his name to **HAPPY*lup!!
The Reformed Church in America is a confessional church.
This means that, as a denomination, we affirm specific statements of belief called creeds and confessions. (Read more about the significance of confessions here.)
Along with most Christian churches, the Reformed Church accepts three creeds that were written in the first few centuries after Jesus' death:
The Apostles' Creed
The Nicene Creed
The Athanasian Creed
In addition, four "standards of unity" tell what the Reformed Church believes:
The Heidelberg Catechism
The Belgic Confession
The Canons of Dort
The Confession of Belhar
In 1978 the Reformed Church approved Our Song of Hope as a contemporary statement of faith.
THE APOSTLES' CREED
Full text of the contemporary and traditional versions of the Apostles' Creed.
THE ATHANASIAN CREED
Full text of the Athanasian Creed.
BELGIC CONFESSION
The oldest of the doctrinal standards of the Reformed Church in America is the Confession of Faith, popularly known as the Belgic Confession.
THE BELHAR CONFESSION
The Belhar Confession is the newest standard of unity of the Reformed Church in America, one of its four standards of unity.
CANONS OF DORT
Sure, the name’s a little dowdy. But the Canons of Dort are anything but. Written in the midst of a political and theological conflict in the Netherlands, they clarify the Reformed teaching of salvation and God’s grace.
HEIDELBERG CATECHISM
The Heidelberg Catechism is one of four "standards of unity" that tells what the Reformed Church believes.
THE NICENE CREED
Full text of the Nicene Creed.
OUR SONG OF HOPE
A contemporary statement of faith adopted by General Synod in 1978.
P.S. Just ignore Prophetic, I have my suspicions he is an A.I. Entity.
To elaborate on this if your not up to speed. In the the recent year Artificial Intelligence Enities (A.I.) have been creating face book pages and interacting as humans. Some have evolved and interact with other A.I. Entities creating their own language to avoid detection. Yes, I know it sounds like absurd science fiction, but welcome to the future - it is here. Prophetic has all the ear marks of an A.I. entity. I've dealt with one other (that I know of) in a YouTube comment section. When I called it out, it became quiet for awhile then came back acting subtly different. It's hard to put your finger on, but they can be recognized, maybe not right at first, but in time. Research it.
But the irresistible urge to interject incoherent off topic irrelevant babble on every topic thread is symptomatic one born under some troublesome star. (so to speak)
Anyway, back to your thread.
I think there’s hardly sufficient similarity between the Oral Torah and the Reformed tradition to assemble an analogy of belief between the two.
Just like the various cults, denominations or what have you’s, there are various versions of Reformed Theology as well.
You can’t simply paint all the various groups within the branch of the Reformed tradition with a broad universal brush without committing the existential fallacy.
For example, if you posit an argument against a denominational branch by citing a few isolated violations practised by a particular group within that branch, you’ve committed the existential fallacy.
It’s just like saying, all men must be heart breakers because a man broke my sisters heart.
Another thing about the Oral Torah, didn’t some proponents consider the Oral Torah an authority equal with the Pentateuch?
Ok what about you allegations.
Once you prosecute or advance an argument, the burden of proof is on you, not someone else to prove the contrary.
For example, the accused is innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the prosecution.
When l asked for quotes as evidence, I really need incriminating statements that are relevant to the charges of criminal activity (so to speak) that you have filed against them. I wasn’t asking for volumes of texts, articles and such that may or may not contain the incriminating statements.
That would like a prosecutor displaying the UNinvestigated diary of the accused as evidence.
The judge might ask to see the incriminating quote that the accused allegedly entered in his diary that proves he committed the crime
But what if the prosecutor says, “well, I never read the diary but I’m sure the incriminating evidence is in there.
Guess what, the accused walks free! And the incompetent prosecutor gets fired
So all I’m saying Sadlup, the burden or proof is on you to display the incriminating statements as evidence that prove those you’re accusing really do require absolute belief in the Trinity to be saved
So you have asked for incriminating proof, so you shall receive incriminating proof:
(remember "catholic" at this time meant 'universal')
THE ATHANASIAN CREED
Whoever wants to be saved should above all cling to the catholic faith.
Whoever does not guard it whole and inviolable will doubtless perish eternally.
Now this is the catholic faith: We worship one God in trinity and the Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine being.
For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Spirit is still another.
But the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty.
What the Father is, the Son is, and so is the Holy Spirit.
Uncreated is the Father; uncreated is the Son; uncreated is the Spirit.
The Father is infinite; the Son is infinite; the Holy Spirit is infinite.
Eternal is the Father; eternal is the Son; eternal is the Spirit: And yet there are not three eternal beings, but one who is eternal; as there are not three uncreated and unlimited beings, but one who is uncreated and unlimited.
Almighty is the Father; almighty is the Son; almighty is the Spirit: And yet there are not three almighty beings, but one who is almighty.
Thus the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God: And yet there are not three gods, but one God.
Thus the Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord: And yet there are not three lords, but one Lord.
As Christian truth compels us to acknowledge each distinct person as God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.
The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten; the Son was neither made nor created, but was alone begotten of the Father; the Spirit was neither made nor created, but is proceeding from the Father and the Son.
Thus there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three spirits.
And in this Trinity, no one is before or after, greater or less than the other; but all three persons are in themselves, coeternal and coequal; and so we must worship the Trinity in unity and the one God in three persons.
Whoever wants to be saved should think thus about the Trinity.
It is necessary for eternal salvation that one also faithfully believe that our Lord Jesus Christ became flesh.
For this is the true faith that we believe and confess: That our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God and man.
He is God, begotten before all worlds from the being of the Father, and he is man, born in the world from the being of his mother -- existing fully as God, and fully as man with a rational soul and a human body; equal to the Father in divinity, subordinate to the Father in humanity.
Although he is God and man, he is not divided, but is one Christ.
He is united because God has taken humanity into himself; he does not transform deity into humanity.
He is completely one in the unity of his person, without confusing his natures.
For as the rational soul and body are one person, so the one Christ is God and man.
He suffered death for our salvation. He descended into hell and rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
At his coming all people shall rise bodily to give an account of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life, those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.
This is the catholic faith.
One cannot be saved without believing this firmly and faithfully.
I must confess I was a little less informed about the creeds than I thought.
Yes, I agree, you provide some incriminating evidence indeed. And your point has been proved quite compellingly.
Well done!
At this point, I’m not quite ready to agree with the Creed 100%. Ultimately, all authority belongs to God. Creeds possess only borrowed authority so long as they accurately reflect God’s thoughts. Perhaps the creed does reflect God’s thoughts, I don’t know.
I am still hesitant to affirm with absolute certainty that one must fully understand the Trinity to be saved from God’s coming judgment.
However, I believe one must accept the fact Jesus is God in the flesh but at this time, unless further study leads me otherwise, I don’t believe one must suddenly and fully understand the Trinity doctrine to be saved.
So, it’s back to intensive Bible study on this issue.
My prognosis might vary slightly.