The Roman Catholic Church was the first to adopt the doctrine of the trinity in AD 325 which stated that God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ and the holy spirit are **ONE**, **CO-EQUAL**{???} and each is **GOD**??? Do you agree with the Roman Catholic Church??
Unfortunately many other churches have adopted this **EQUAL** definition of the Trinity.
LUTHERAN CHURCH: We teach that the one true God. is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, three distinct persons, but of one and the same divine essence, **EQUAL** in power,{???} **EQUAL** in eternity,{???} **EQUAL** in majesty,{???} because each person possesses the one divine essence. -- Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod)
**EQUAL IN ETERNITY**{???} Why are there only **2 THRONES** in the eternal New Jerusalem for Jesus and the Father???
Question: Is Jesus **CO-EQUAL** with the Father?
**WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
John 14:28: Jesus says, "If you loved Me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the **FATHER IS GREATER THAN I**!"
John 10:27-30: Jesus says, "My sheep listen to My voice, I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me is **GREATER THAN ALL**;
John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "**ALL** that the Father gives Me **WILL** come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day.... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me **DRAWS HIM**, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED THEM**!!"
John 17:17: Jesus says to His Father, "Sanctify them by the truth **YOUR WORD** is Truth!!"
Deuteronomy 18:17-20: The Lord said to Moses, "I will raise up for them a Prophet from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put My words in His mouth. He will tell them everything I command Him. I Myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to My words that the Prophet speaks in My Name!"
John 14:23-24: Jesus says, "Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching. My Father will love them, and **WE** will come to them and make **OUR HOME** with them. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching. These words you hear are not My own; they belong to the Father who sent Me!"
Matthew 28:16-20:: Jesus says, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to **ME**. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age!"
Jesus is the **HEAD** of God's Kingdom in the NT era until His 2nd Coming and **THEN** He will hand over His Kingdom to God the Father!
I Corinthians 15:23-24: For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the Firstfruits, then, when He comes, those who belong to Him. **THEN** He will hand over the Kingdom to God the Father!
There are 7 passages in the New Testament which state that we should **ONLY PRAY TO GOD THE FATHER**!!
Revelation 1:1: The Revelation from Jesus Christ, which **GOD GAVE HIM**!
John 14:28: Jesus says, "If you loved Me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the **FATHER IS GREATER THAN I!"
Question: Is the holy spirit **CO-EQUAL** to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ**??
Colossians 1:15-20: The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the **HEAD** of the body, the church, He is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything He might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross.
John 16:12-15: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when hem the spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth. **HE WILL NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN**; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me because it is **FROM ME** that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the spirit will **RECEIVE FROM ME**what he will make known to you!"
God the Father told Jesus what to say in the 4 Gospels while Jesus told the holy spirit what to inspire the writers to write in the other books in the New Covenant!
Ephesians 4:7; 11-16: To each one of us grace has been given **AS CHRIST APPORTIONED IT**.... It is He who gives some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ!.... Speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into Him who is the **HEAD**, that is Christ. **FROM HIM** the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work!
Jesus is called **GOD** 7 times in God's Word and is called **LORD** over 200 times in the New Testament, and is **WORSHIPED** 12 times in the New Testament, and God's Word tells us to only **WORSHIP GOD** in Revelation 22:8,9 below!! While the holy spirit is never called **GOD** or **LORD** in God's Word and is **NEVER WORSHIPED** in God's Word!!
Revelation 22:8,9: I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, "**DON'T DO THAT** A am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who **KEEP THE WORDS** of this scroll. **WORSHIP GOD**!!
Revelation 5:11-14: Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands and 10 thousand times 10 thousand. In a loud voice they were saying: "Worthy is the **LAMB**, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!" Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and under the earth and on the sea and all that is in them, saying: "To Him who sits on the throne and to the **LAMB** be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" The 4 living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and **WORSHIPED**! {Why was not the holy spirit worshiped here along with the Father and Jesus??}
The **WORSHIP** of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ can also be found in Matthew 2:2,8,11; 14:33; 28:9,17 Luke 24:52 and John 9:38!! {Any worship of the holy spirit can not be found in God's Word!!}
And in Hebrews 1:1-3,6,8; Paul is inspired to write: "In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by His powerful word... God says, "Let all God's angels **WORSHIP HIM**!!" and about His Son God says, "Your throne, **O GOD** will last for ever and ever!!"
John 1:18: No one has ever seen God, **BUT THE ONE AND ONLY SON**!! who is **HIMSELF GOD** and in closest relationship with the Father, has made Him known!!
Titus 2:13-14: We wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**--the glorious appearing of our great **GOD AND SAVIOR**, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to glorify Himself a people that are **HIS VERY OWN**, eager to do what is good!
Luke 3:16: John the Baptist said, "I baptize you with water. But One who is more powerful than I will baptize you with the holy spirit and fire!!"
And so **JESUS BAPTIZES** with the holy spirit and fire all whom God the Father have chosen!
Note: Jesus Christ is called the **LAMB** 30 times in the book of Revelation and the holy spirit is called the **7 SPIRITS** 4 times in Revelation:
Revelation 1:4: Grace and peace to you from the Father and the **7 SPIRITS** **BEFORE HIS THRONE** and from Jesus Christ!
Revelation 3:1: Jesus says, "These are the words of Him who **HOLDS** the **7 SPIRITS OF GOD**!" {See John 16:12-15 below!}
Revelation 4:5: In front of the {Father's} **THRONE** 7 lamps were blazing. These are the **7 SPIRITS OF GOD**. {See Revelation 1:4 above}
Revelation 5:6: The **LAMB** had 7 horns and 7 eyes which are the **7 SPIRITS OF GOD** sent out into all the earth! {See John 16:12-15 below}
And so Jesus **HOLDS** the 7 spirits of God in His right hand which **HE SENDS** out into all the earth.
Revelation 3:1,14;19-21: Jesus says, "These are the words of Him who **HOLDS THE 7 SPIRITS OF GOD**... These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Ruler of God's creation... Those whom I love I discipline. So be earnest and repent. Here I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I {MY SPIRIT} will come in and eat with him and he with Me. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with Me on **MY THRONE**, just as I overcame and sat down with **MY FATHER ON HIS THRONE**!! These are the **ONLY 2 THRONES** in the eternal New Jerusalem as per Revelation 22:3 below!!!
Revelation 22:3:: The **THRONE OF GOD** and of the **LAMB**will be in the City {In our Eternal Home in the New Jerusalem}
Revelation 21:22-23: I did not see a temple in the City, because the Lord God Almighty and the **LAMB** are its temple. The City does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light and the **LAMB** is its Lamp!!
It is interesting to note that the holy spirit or 7 spirits are not even mentioned once in the description of our eternal home in the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21:1-27 and Revelation 22::1-5, and that there will be only **2 THRONES** for the Father and Jesus the **LAMB** in the eternal New Jerusalem!!
**ONLY JESUS **BAPTIZES WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT** TO ALL THE FATHER HAS CHOSEN WHILE THE LIVING WORD OF GOD IS PREACHED OR READ**!!
Mark 1:7-8: John the Baptist said, "After me comes the One more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down an untie. I baptize with water but **HE WILL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT**!"
John 1:32-34: Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the spirit come down and remain is the One who will **BAPTIZE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT**.' I have seen and testify that this is God's Chosen One."
John 7:38-39: Jesus says, "Whoever believes in Me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow within them!" By this He meant the spirit, whom those who believed in Him were later to receive. Up to that time the spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
Jesus would not be glorified until he died, rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. Only then would he be glorified and only then would he "**BAPTIZE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT**. Peter's words on Pentecost support this.
John 16:12-15: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to, more than you can now bear. But when he, the spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth. **HE WILL NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN**, he will only speak what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me because it is **FROM ME** that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said the spirit will **RECEIVE **FROM ME** WHAT HE WILL MAKE KNOWN TO YOU**!!"
Note: Jesus Christ is called the **LAMB** 30 times in the book of Revelation and the holy spirit is called the **7 SPIRITS** 4 times in Revelation:
Revelation 3:1: Jesus says, "These are the words of Him who **HOLDS** the **7 SPIRITS OF GOD**!" {See John 16:12-15 below!}
Revelation 4:5: In front of the {Father's} **THRONE** 7 lamps were blazing. These are the **7 SPIRITS OF GOD**.
Revelation 5:6: The **LAMB** had 7 horns and 7 eyes which are the **7 SPIRITS OF GOD** sent out into all the earth! {See John 16:12-15 above}
And so Jesus **HOLDS** the 7 spirits of God or holy spirit which **HE SENDS** out into all the earth when He **BAPTIZES WITH THE HOLY SPIRIY OR 7 SPIRITS OF GOD** all the new converts whom the Father has chosen!
Revelation 3:1,14;19-21: Jesus says, "These are the words of Him who holds the 7 spirits of God... These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Ruler of God's creation... Those whom I love I discipline. So be earnest and repent. Here I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I {MY SPIRIT} will come in and eat with him and he with Me. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with Me on **MY THRONE**, just as I overcame and sat down with **MY FATHER ON HIS THRONE**!! These are the **ONLY 2 THRONES** in the eternal New Jerusalem as per Revelation 22:3 below!!!
Revelation 22:3:: The **THRONE OF GOD** and of the **LAMB**will be in the City {In our Eternal Home in the New Jerusalem}
Revelation 21:22-23: I did not see a temple in the City, because the Lord God Almighty and the **LAMB** are its temple. The City does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light and the **LAMB** is its Lamp!!
It is interesting to note that the holy spirit or 7 spirits are not even mentioned once in the description of our eternal home in the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21:1-27 and Revelation 22::1-5, and that there will be only **2 THRONES** for the Father and Jesus the **LAMB** in the eternal New Jerusalem!!
Acts 1:4,5,8: Jesus said to 120 saints, "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the **GIFT** My Father promised, which you have heard Me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be **BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT**!"... You will receive **POWER** when the holy spirit comes on you; and you will be **MY WITNESSES**, in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth!"
Acts 2:1-3: When the Day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed like tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the holy spirit! These 120 saints as per Acts 1:13, were already **BORN AGAIN**!
Acts 10:44-46: While Peter was speaking these words {The Word of God in Acts 10:34-43} the holy spirit came on all who heard the message The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the **GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT** had been poured out on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Acts 11:15-16: Peter said as I was speaking the word of God, the holy spirit came on them as he had come on us. Then I remembered what the Lord Jesus had said {In Acts 1:5} "John baptized with water but you will be **BAPTIZED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT**!"
I Peter 1:23; For you have been **BORN AGAIN**, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, **THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING WORD OF GOD**!
John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "**ALL** that the Father gives Me **WILL** come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day.... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me **DRAWS HIM**, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED THEM**!!"
So John the Baptist baptized with water but only **JESUS BAPTIZES WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT** as per Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:7-8, Luke 3:16 and John 1:33!!
**SO ONLY JESUS **BAPTIZES WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT** TO ALL THE FATHER HAS CHOSEN WHILE THE LIVING WORD OF GOD IS PREACHED AND READ**
After you are **BORN AGAIN** when **JESUS BAPTIZES OR IMMERSES YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT** the you will want to obey all of God's approximately 400 New covenant commands. One of these commands is to be immersed or baptized with water to show that you have been **BAPTIZED AN IMMERSED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT BY JESUS**! When we go down into the waters of baptism and then emerge from the water, it is symbolic of our being **IMMERSED WITH CHRIST**, and then rising to new life.
Sadlup, I quote the following from your most recent post above:
“@Little David;
It's called "anthropomorphism". Read Proverbs 8:22-31; Do you think wisdom is a person?”
You’re confusing “personification” with “anthropomorphism”.
Let me help
Personification attributes human characteristics to something abstract or nonhuman.
For example, from the Proverbs text that you cited, the nonhuman concept of wisdom is said to be “personified” or given human characteristics. In other words, wisdom is “personified” as a “she”, she is said to “call”, “cry out” and to “stand”.
Other common examples of personification might look like this: The moon smiled at us. Or “The morning sun greeted us” or “The ocean waved at us”.
On the other hand.
One definition for “anthropomorphism” from the Oxford English Dictionary is the “ascription of a human form and attributes to the Deity.”
A few examples of “anthropomorphism“ might look like: “God walking”, “God changing his mind”, “God stretching out his hand” “God’s eye” and so on
I realize the distinction between “anthropomorphism“ and “personification” is subtle but that doesn’t excuse careless application of either
In addition, neither term has application to the biblical texts I cited because no figures of speech are used in these passages
Matthew 4:4: Jesus says, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on **EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD**!"
Titus 1:9 Elders must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by **SOUND DOCTRINE** and **REFUTE THOSE** who oppose it!!
2 Timothy 2:25,26: Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to the knowledge of the truth, and then they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
I Timothy 6:20,21: Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposings ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, which some have professed and in so doing have departed from the faith!!
I Tomothy 4:16: Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and hearers!
2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!} Be prepared in season and out of season: **CORRECT, REBUKE and ENCIOURAGE**--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the Truth and turn aside to myths! {This would include Satanic denominations like the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Mormons the Unitarians the Roman Catholic Church and those that preach the Satanic Prosperity Gospel}
Matthew 4:4: Jesus says, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on **EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD**!"
I applaud you're striving for accuracy. However from your quotations defining personification vs anthropomorphism, granted is an oversimplification in this format, we are still crossing the deity line. Therefore either definition is generally applicable.
The point is, the use of personal pronouns doesn't necessarily indicate a "person" is being spoken of where other options such as personification or anthropomorphism are viable options of interpretation.
If you want the renown of being the only one using anthropomorphism in reference to the Proverbs personification you’re welcome to it. You’re being consistent with your other posts. If you were in the Army, you would be the only one in step
Personification applies to Proverbs 8 nicely except for those who identify Wisdom as Jesus or the Holy Spirit. I did neither, although I'm open to the possibility. You seem stuck on anthromorphism, so for the sake of discussion let's remove it from the equation. The point is what is being done in Proverbs 8 with wisdom is an example of what is often done with the Holy Spirit. Therefore it doesn't necessarily mean the Holy Spirit is scientifically classified as a "person". And certainly does Not prove God is some kind of triune being. You go way beyond Scripture then expect everyone to agree or burn in hell - typical systematic theologian.
