Thread: Salvation, aka true election, is not determined by whether a man ever sins in this world!
Admin
Salvation, aka true election, is not determined by whether a man ever sins in this world!
Posted : 8 Nov, 2011 10:41 AM
A sister on here wrote a post on being kept by the power of God.
Some on here who deny that the Word of God is true, and that we which are of the elect, are not to expect that God will keep His Word, instead proffering that it is man who keeps himself, even going so far as to caution others that you cannot depend upon the high doctrine of election, and that it is "dangerous" to think of the Word of God so.
Here is what Peter said. Notice please that Peter states that we are kept secure, even to be delivered to salvation:
"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the [strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia] ELECT according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." [I Peter 1:1-2]
"Peter..to the...ELECT. And what are we in this earth, though we are God's ELECT? "strangers scattered throughout the world".
Here in this next passage you will see that we have been begotten again to a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead...TO AN INHERITANCE INCORRUPTIBLE...undefiled...AND WHICH FADETH NOT AWAY...........KEPT [secure] BY THE POWER OF GOD..through faith..........UNTO SALVATION!"
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." [I Peter 1:3-5]
We are saved, not because of anything we have done, or could ever do. In short, sin has nothing to do with our being chosen, and this is a great mystery.
The Word makes clear that election is not based upon any discrimination of levels or measures of sinfulness:
"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;" [Romans 9:11]
Election is based not on any "good or evil" that a man or woman will be involved in during their lives, but on God's Sovereign Purpose, which by that scripture has nothing to do with whether or not you ever had sinned.
So, how is it then that this "choice crowd" thinks that salvation is determined by sin?
Grace and peace be unto you, who are of the elect!
Salvation, aka true election, is not determined by whether a man ever sins in this world!
Posted : 8 Nov, 2011 11:04 AM
If you are a hypocrite what will happen to you on the Day of Judgment? ‏
My Brothers,
the Day of Judgment will be a terrible day. God doesn�t look forward to that day as He doesn�t want to send anyone to Hell. But because He is Holy and pure He will send sinners to hell. Hell goes on forever. He cannot dwell with sin He is a holy God.
The Bible describes God as Love. He loves people like a father loves his children but infinitely more. His love is indescribable. God will weep on that day when people are sent to hell. As that is not his heart. His heart is more that people would repent. He would rather they would be saved and come to heaven to live with Him. God loves people. People have to be cleaned up from their sins if they are to dwell with Him.
It says: For God SO loved the world that He gave His only son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
It is only if we believe in Him that He died for us that we can be saved. If we don�t believe that He paid the price for our sins we will be eternally lost.
You can pay lip service to Isa and say yes Isa I believe you are a great prophet and that you will come back to judge the earth. But unless you believe He is God who became man and died for your sins, then your sins will never be forgiven and you will be punished for your sins forever. You can either trust Him to take your sins away, or you can face the punishments of your sins in hell forever. There is no other alternative.
That�s why I say to you pray to God and seek the truth. Ask Him to show you the truth. The answer may not come straight away. But if you are sincere and you really want to know the truth. Then God will reveal it to you. You must be persistent and seek God very carefully.
How will God reveal the truth to me? God speaks mainly through the Bible. He can speak in other ways.
The Bible says if you seek me with all your heart YOU WILL find me. Following Isa is not a religion its a relationship. Its different to any religion on the face of the planet. God wants you to be his friend. He is so amazingly humble. The God who created the heavens wants you to be close to Him. Amazing isn�t it?
God says I will live with them and dwell with them: I will be their God and they shall be my people.
The Bible says on the Day of Judgment: Revelation 20:11,
? And I saw a great white throne and Him that sat on it from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away.
And I saw the dead small and great stand before God and the books were opened�..
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.�
What is hell like?
Isa describes it as a terrible place �where the worm dies not and the fire is not quenched. People will be tortured forever. And the smoke of their torment went up forever�
Isa also says that people will gnash their teeth in hell.
Why do they do this? Let me explain something�..If someone is a murderer or a rapist they have an idea that they will go to hell. But if someone just tries to do good but rejects Isa and lives quite a good life. Then when that person when they end up in hell will have such regrets, as they heard the Gospel/the Good News but they rejected it.
That�s why do they gnash their teeth? It�s due to deep regret. They remember all the opportunities they had and threw away.
So you tell me Isa will send good people to Hell? That doesn�t seem fair!
Have you never heard the saying that the road to hell is paved with good intents? Isa wants true believers to be good and live good lives. But it�s not their goodness that earns them the right to go to Heaven. No!
Believing in Isa is different from every other religion. It�s unique. All religions will tell you that if your good works are better than all the bad that you have done then you will go to Heaven. But this is not the truth.
So how do you get into Heaven? By your faith! By the fact that you trust in God that your sins were paid for on the cross 2000 years ago. This is the only way. Then once you are saved by Isa He expects you to do good works.
Ephesians 2:8: �For by grace are you saved through FAITH, and not of yourselves it is the gift of God. Not by good works so that no man can boast.� (We are not saved by our good works).
Now these people, who are saved if they have done good as believers i.e. shared the Gospel with the lost, and fed the hungry and clothed the poor. Then these people will receive an eternal reward. This reward will go on forever and ever.
Isa said lay not up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and rust do corrupt and thieves break through and steal but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven where neither moth nor rust do corrupt and where thieves do not break through and steal. For where your treasure is there will your heart be also.
But the Bible says in Hebrews 11: �Without faith it is impossible to please God.�
Do you want to please God? I know you do! Then have faith that Isa died for you. Hebrews 11 is a good chapter to read as it describes all the amazing things people did through faith. Faith pleases God. We get into Heaven by faith and we are rewarded because of our good deeds.
However someone may ask the question: what happens to all the hypocrites? What about the catholic priest that abuses boys or the Christian husband those beats their wife? What happens to them? Does God just forgive them and let them into Heaven?
The Bible is clear about what happens to people that are hypocrites�.
Isa said whoever causes one of these little ones (one of these children) that believes in Me to sin, it were better for him that a milestone was cast around his neck and he were thrown into the sea!
Isa didn�t mince his words!
In those days a mill stone was a stone that was very very big. It would go round in a circle and grind the corn. It was huge.
What Isa said is anyone who does this to a child will have a terrible punishment. His place in hell will be awful. What about the husband who beats his wife and is an alcoholic? Then the following day he asks for forgiveness?
The Bible says Repent! Repent means to stop doing your bad behavior and to turn round and do good. If the man doesn�t repent, then he won�t go to Heaven but he will go to hell.
But you say what you are asking me is too hard for me? How can I stop doing my bad things?
Well the Bible says that God will give you the power of the Holy Spirit to live good. After you have given your life to Him, ask Him to help you and He will!
See what I peter 1;5 says: �Who are kept by the power of God through FAITH to salvation�.�
God will keep you from evil by His power.
God will give you the power to live right; He will make your faith strong. He will give you peace and joy when your sins are forgiven by Him. His heart is that you would live with Him in Heaven forever. Not go to that other place�.
You talk a lot about hell!
Why do I do this?�.To warn you.
A true friend will warn you.
There are a lot of preachers that say come to Isa and he will make you happy. There are some Christians that go to church on Sunday and live like the devil the rest of the week. God will not tolerated hypocrites. God won�t let people like this into Heaven.
Isa spoke alit about hell himself. His heart is to bless and encourage people He doesn�t want to send them there. But He will if they don�t repent.
How do I know if I am a sinner? Have you ever lied? Well, that makes you a liar! Have you ever stolen? Even if it was a little thing when you were a child? Well that makes you a thief. Have you ever lusted after someone? Well that makes you an adulterer.
The Bible says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God�s. A lot of people will say well does that mean that most people will go to hell? Will I go to hell? Is there anyway I can escape going to hell?
The Bible says if you accept that Isa was punished for your sins then you will be saved�
So I ask you again my friend: Seek God with all of your heart. Following Isa is not a bed of roses sometimes it is very hard. Don�t think it will be easy. The Bible never says that.
What does it mean to follow Isa. It means your life is no longer your own. Wherever He shows you to go, there you will go. Whatever He wants you to do that you do�You surrender your life to Him. Your life is no longer your own.
I Corinthians 6;19-20 �..you are not your own�you have been bought with a price��
The price was the life of God the Son on the cross of Calvary�
But Isa has promised I will never leave you nor forsake you He will be with you always�.then one day you will see Him face to face�.the One who created the universe�.I promise you that all the suffering of this world cannot compare to the wonder and glory of knowing Isa.
The Bible says eye has not seen nor ear heard neither has entered into the heart of man the things God has prepared for those that love Him�.
God has a wonderful destiny for your life�and one day when this life is over He will receive you to Heaven�.One minute in the presence of Isa when you see His face will make a lifetime of suffering and hardship seem worth it�but you have not just a minute but all eternity with the precious Lamb of God/Jesus Christ! The Bible describes Heaven as such a wonderful place that nothing in this earth can be compared to it, and there you will have your eternal reward!
By Osaze Omar
1 Corinthians 6 (New King James Version)
1 Corinthians 6
Do Not Sue the Brethren
1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Glorify God in Body and Spirit
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.
15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For �the two,� He says, �shall become one flesh.�17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God�s.
Salvation, aka true election, is not determined by whether a man ever sins in this world!
Posted : 8 Nov, 2011 11:10 AM
Some on here who deny that the Word of God is true, and that we which are of the elect, are not to expect that God will keep His Word, instead proffering that it is man who keeps himself, even going so far as to caution others that you cannot depend upon the high doctrine of election, and that it is "dangerous" to think of the Word of God so.
Salvation, aka true election, is not determined by whether a man ever sins in this world!
Posted : 8 Nov, 2011 11:13 AM
Brothers,
one of my Muslim brothers said:
In USA and Europe, I saw prostitutes being �.while having cross round their necks... They say that Jesus will mercy them and send them to heaven...
Exactly like you with your mean behaviour and emails, yet you think you are doing well.
One question!!.. what happens inside churchs after you finish prayer...
Here in our district, Christians say that lights go out inside churches for a while to let mixed people please each other..
You are lax in morals as well as believes...
You had better find your way before it is too late.
Let me answer to your question by quoting you words of one song. This answer will remind us again about who we are and what happened with our brothers in America in September too:
Where Were You When The World Stopped Turning?
Where were you when the world stopped turning on that September day?
Were you in the yard with your wife and children
Or working on some stage in L.A.?
Did you stand there in shock at the sight of that black smoke
Risin' against that blue sky?
Did you shout out in anger, in fear for your neighbor
Or did you just sit down and cry?
Did you weep for the children who lost their dear loved ones
And pray for the ones who don't know?
Did you rejoice for the people who walked from the rubble
And sob for the ones left below?
Did you burst out in pride for the red, white and blue
And the heroes who died just doin' what they do?
Did you look up to heaven for some kind of answer
And look at yourself and what really matters?
I'm just a singer of simple songs
I'm not a real political man
I watch CNN but I'm not sure I can tell
you the difference in Iraq and Iran
But I know Jesus and I talk to God
And I remember this from when I was young
Faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us
And the greatest is love.
Where were you when the world stopped turning on that September day?
Were you teaching a class full of innocent children
Or driving down some cold interstate?
Did you feel guilty 'cause you're a survivor?
In a crowded room did you feel alone?
Did you call up your mother and tell her you loved her?
Did you dust off that Bible at home?
Did you open your eyes, hope it never happened
Close your eyes and not go to sleep?
Did you notice the sunset the first time in ages
Or speak to some stranger on the street?
Did you lay down at night and think of tomorrow
Or go out and buy you a gun?
Did you turn off that violent old movie you're watchin'
And turn on "I Love Lucy" reruns?
Did you go to a church and hold hands with some strangers
Did you stand in line and give your own blood?
Did you just stay home and cling tight to your family
Thank God you had somebody to love?
And the greatest is love.
And the greatest is love.
Where were you when the world stopped turning that September day?
Brothers,
yes my brother is right. I am a sinner. I am a killer. I even cannt count my sins.
But I know only what my God was teaching me since my childhood:
But I know Jesus and I talk to God
And I remember this from when I was young
Faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us
And the greatest is love.
When I was a child God revealed me Himself by giving me a chance to read His holy words. God came to me through these words. I re-reread them so many times...and God talked to my heart. He told me that He is LOVE and He gave me FAITH and Hope in Him. These are the best moments in my life when God talked to me.
No one of men came to me and told me about my sins. Only God did it. No one explained me how bad my sins were. Only God did it. There was no hope in my life but God shed His Light from heaven into my heart and I repented of my sins. He forgave me.
I came to my schoolmates and I taught them the way of God. I can to my teachers in school and I told them about my God. I came to you to bring you the same Light of God which we all are able observe in the life of God Jesus. Do not look at my life. Look at Him and How perfect He was and is.
Who am I?
I am nothing. But He is everything.
About Him I tell you, forgetting if I would be in hell or not.
I am asking Him to save you all, that you would avoid the hell fire.
This is not about me, what I tell you but about Him!
And I tell Him about you!
He forgives and gives us hope no matter who were. If we have committed any sins then we should remember that He- Jesus- is the ONE who forgave all our sins.
He chose to forgive my crimes.
But I am imperfect. How to be perfect?
If I will OBEY Him and LIVE as He says, implementing all His words, then in the Kingdom of Heaven I will see that I was forgiven and accepted by God.
If I will live in the renewed life WALKING with God Jesus only then I am forgiven and cleansed of my sins.
If I would return to my love from Palestine then would I be in the Kingdom of Heaven? No.
If we do not abandon our lovers, sins, crimes, abominations which we all have committed then HOW would we get to the Kingdom of Heaven?
Jesus sis the ONLY Way to God.
By living with Jesus, we cannt sin. We cannt return to our mud pit to sleep there again and again.
By living with Jesus, we cannt live without Him. This life is DEATH.
It means we have only two choices:
1. Or we live with God
2. Or we live against God.
There is no other option!
God Jesus said:
He who is not with Me is against Me,
and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.
Matthew 12: 30
Brothers, we can be prodigal sons, dogs or pigs always living and sleeping in our mud pit.
But when you are in a such state there is no one who would be able to give you a hand of support!
Who is this who loves you infinitely?
No one.
Only God is helping you to rise up when you have fallen down.
Only God comes to you to wipe away your tears and He promised to wipe them away in His Kingdom too! Only God returns you your direct look lifting up your eyes to Himself.
Only He who wipes your blood from your face, returns you HOPE and LIFE when you decided to kill yourself.
Who is He that He loves so the humankind?
He is the ONE who lived among us.
He is the ONE who suffered like we are suffering.
He was hungry like we are hungry.
He was in blood and no one supported Him.
He is the One who was insulted and finally killed.
He was killed instead of you. That�s why there is no need to die for you. Do not kill yourself because He gave you HOPE!
He NOT only descends from heaven to your world, He comes to YOU in His GLORY and His pierced hands wipe away your tears and He changes your future. There is no need to die.
He is the ONE who saves you.
There is NO OTHER who is like He is.
He said:
�Thus says the LORD:
� I remember you,
The kindness of your youth,
The love of your betrothal,
When you went after Me in the wilderness,
In a land not sown.
Israel was holiness to the LORD,
The firstfruits of His increase.
All that devour him will offend;
Disaster will come upon them,� says the LORD.��
�
� What injustice have your fathers found in Me,
That they have gone far from Me,
Have followed idols,
And have become idolaters?
�
Has a nation changed its gods,
Which are not gods?
But My people have changed their Glory
For what does not profit.
�
� For My people have committed two evils:
They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters,
And hewn themselves cisterns�broken cisterns that can hold no water.
�
� How shall I pardon you for this?
Your children have forsaken Me
And sworn by those that are not gods.
When I had fed them to the full,
Then they committed adultery
And assembled themselves by troops in the harlots� houses.
�
I have seen your adulteries
And your lustful neighings,
The lewdness of your harlotry,
Your abominations on the hills in the fields.
Woe to you, O Jerusalem!
Will you still not be made clean?�
�
Have you not brought this on yourself,
In that you have forsaken the LORD your God
When He led you in the way?
�
Your own wickedness will correct you,
And your backslidings will rebuke you.
Know therefore and see that it is an evil and bitter thing
That you have forsaken the LORD your God,
And the fear of Me is not in you,�
Says the Lord GOD of hosts.
�
Yet I had planted you a noble vine, a seed of highest quality.
How then have you turned before Me
Into the degenerate plant of an alien vine?
For though you wash yourself with lye, and use much soap,
Yet your iniquity is marked before Me,� says the Lord GOD.
�
Yet you say, �Because I am innocent,
Surely His anger shall turn from me.�
Behold, I will plead My case against you,
Because you say, �I have not sinned.�
Why do you gad about so much to change your way?
Also you shall be ashamed of Egypt as you were ashamed of Assyria.
�
You also committed harlotry with the Egyptians, your very fleshly neighbors, and increased your acts of harlotry to provoke Me to anger.
�
You are an adulterous wife,
who takes strangers instead of her husband.
Men make payment to all harlots,
but you made your payments to all your lovers,
and hired them to come to you from all around for your harlotry.
You are the opposite of other women in your harlotry,
because no one solicited you to be a harlot.
In that you gave payment but no payment was given you, therefore you are the opposite.�
�
Also My food which I gave you�the pastry of fine flour, oil, and honey which I fed you�you set it before them as sweet incense; and so it was,� says the Lord GOD.
�
�But you trusted in your own beauty, played the harlot because of your fame, and poured out your harlotry on everyone passing by who would have it.
�
There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
�
�They say, �If a man divorces his wife,
And she goes from him
And becomes another man�s,
May he return to her again?�
Would not that land be greatly polluted?
But you have played the harlot with many lovers;
Yet return to Me,�
says the LORD.
�
And I will establish My covenant with you.
Then you shall know that I am the LORD,
that you may remember and be ashamed,
and never open your mouth anymore because of your shame,
when I provide you an atonement for all you have done,� says the Lord GOD.��
�
Will you not from this time cry to Me,
� My Father, You are the guide of my youth?
�
� Return, backsliding Israel,� says the LORD;
� I will not cause My anger to fall on you.
For I am merciful,�
says the LORD;
� I will not remain angry forever.
Only acknowledge your iniquity,
That you have transgressed against the LORD your God,
And have scattered your charms
To alien deities under every green tree,
And you have not obeyed My voice,�
says the LORD.
�
Surely, as a wife treacherously departs from her husband,
So have you dealt treacherously with Me,
O house of Israel,� says the LORD.
�
�Return, O backsliding children,�
says the LORD;
�for I am married to you.
I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion.
And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.
�
�When I passed by you again and looked upon you, indeed your time was the time of love; so I spread My wing over you and covered your nakedness. Yes, I swore an oath to you and entered into a covenant with you, and you became Mine,� says the Lord GOD.
�Then I washed you in water; yes, I thoroughly washed off your blood, and I anointed you with oil.
�
� Return,
you backsliding children,
And I will heal your backslidings.�
�
Jeremiah 3: 2-3, 5. Ezekiel 23:16, 23
Brothers, God said these words you all Christians, Jews and you Muslims.
RETURN backsliding children, wash your hands from the blood of your you sins. God is married you. You like His wife who is making Him great pain.
He is LONG-SUFFERING!
He SUFFERS LONG!
Why?
Because He NEEDS you!
There is no greater LOVE!
God made an ATONEMENT for your sins!
And I will establish My covenant with you.
Then you shall know that I am the LORD,
that you may remember and be ashamed,
and never open your mouth anymore because of your shame,
when I provide you an atonement for all you have done,�
says the Lord GOD.��
This Atonement is the DEATH of His Son -�Ibn Allah- on the cross instead of you. He took all your sins to make you FREE of them and CLEANSED of your sins and blood once and forever.
Salvation, aka true election, is not determined by whether a man ever sins in this world!
Posted : 8 Nov, 2011 11:38 AM
bahira writes:
"PJ I asked moderators to block you and analyze your posts insulting us.
I hope they will do it."
"This is what the LORD says: 'Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD.' " [Jeremiah 17:5]
If you were a true Proverbs woman of God, you would not trust upon man to resolve the issues of the spiritual kingdom of God!
I do not agree with nearly all of PJs comment, but I would not dare insult the faith of God's elect, by relying upon the fall-flawed reason of man to deal with things which man is not fit to deal with.
