Thread: What does GOD Almighty say believers in Messiah are, Sinners saved by Grace OR something completely different
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What does GOD Almighty say believers in Messiah are, Sinners saved by Grace OR something completely different
Posted : 22 Sep, 2018 04:12 PM
Hello everyone, Yes the truthseeker is at it once again to get the sheeple to THINK about what they believe.
When talking with the Christians, I hear them calling themselves ' sinners saved by grace. I believe they are quoting what someone had said. namely someone calling themselves 'pastor'
Many people on this site call themselves ' sinners' saved by grace
I have a problem with this, as I cannot find this title or saying within the Word of GOD Almighty.
I believe the Christians are like parrots, they quote what a person in a position of authority says, without investigating the validity of what had been said.
Did not Paul commend the people of Berea for being diligent in their desire for truth.
Act 17:10
But the brethren immediately sent away, in the night, Paul and Silas to Berea; who, being arrived, went away into the synagogue of the Jews.
Act 17:11
And these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, receiving the word with all readiness of mind, daily searching the scriptures if these things were so.
When a person that has believed Messiah to save them, then they call themselves a 'sinner' saved by grace, do they not belittle Messiah and His Word by calling themselves something that he does not.
Most people may have no understanding of who Messiah is and what He is like, that is why they call themselves 'sinners'.
Most people may not understand who they are in Messiah, this account for calling themselves ' sinners saved by grace'
If a believer is not a sinner saved by grace then what does the Word of GOD Almighty say we are.
GOD Almighty declares 'Rom 4:17
(as it is written, �A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU�) in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist. '
GOD Almighty declares believers to being SAINTS not 'sinners saved by grace'
The word SAINT in Greek is hagios which means HOLY
hagios: sacred, holy
Original Word: ἅγιος, ία, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: hagios
Phonetic Spelling: (hag'-ee-os)
Short Definition: set apart, holy, sacred
Definition: set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred.
GOD Almighty declares believers to being HOLY, set apart unto Him even though we really are not Holy. The Holiness we have been clothed in is the Holiness of Messiah, that is why GOD Almighty can declare a believer to be Holy.
Lets begin to see ourselves as GOD Almighty declares us to be, SAINTS set apart in Messiah unto the will of GOD ALMIGHTY.
What does GOD Almighty say believers in Messiah are, Sinners saved by Grace OR something completely different
Posted : 22 Sep, 2018 04:37 PM
I apparently have not drawn as big of a distinction in the two ideas as some have but I have just recently been giving it more thought. I am still working it all out and have not fully made my mind up yet.
What does GOD Almighty say believers in Messiah are, Sinners saved by Grace OR something completely different
Posted : 22 Sep, 2018 05:58 PM
Hi Jack, thanks for joining us.
As believers we need to know what GOD Almighty says about us, because our identity is based upon His Word, not what people say. According to the Word of GOD Almighty , we are DECLARED Saints, forgiven, Justified, reconciled, Righteous, Holy / Sanctified. Do the Christians believe that OR do they believe they are 'sinners saved by grace. One is found within the Word of GOD Almighty, the other is not.
The Just shall live by Faith, not by what others say about them.
What does GOD Almighty say believers in Messiah are, Sinners saved by Grace OR something completely different
Posted : 23 Sep, 2018 12:09 PM
More ridiculous quotes by gracenotworkssaves:
"Most people may not understand who they are in Messiah, this accounts for calling themselves 'sinners saved by grace.'"
" If a believer is not a sinner saved by grace then what does the Word of GOD Almighty say we are."
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
Romans 3:23-24: **ALL HAVE **SINNED** AND FALL SHORT** of the glory of God, and all are **JUSTIFIED BY HIS **GRACE** through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus!!
I Timothy 1:15,16: Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: **CHRIST JESUS CAME INTO THE WORLD TO **SAVE SINNERS**--of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display His immense patience as an example of those who would believe in Him and receive eternal life.
** WE ARE COMMANDED TO WALK AS JESUS WALKED {SEE JOHN 2:6} AND TO BE HOLY AS GOD IS HOLY, WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE, AND SO WE SIN DAILY. AND WE SHOULD **DAILY** ASK GOD TO FORGIVE US OUR SINS AND PURIFY US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS**!!
I John 1:8-10: If we claim to be without **SIN**, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we **CONFESS OUR SINS**, He is faithful and just and will forgive us **OUR SINS** and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have **NOT SINNED** we make Him out to be a liar and His Word is not in us!
Luke 11:1-4: The disciples asked Jesus, "Lord teach as to pray." Jesus replied to His disciples, "When you pray, say: '**FATHER**, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. Give us each day our **DAILY** bread. Forgive us **OUR SINS**, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us!'"
Galatians 6:1,2: Brothers, if someone is caught in a **SIN**, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ!
James 516: Confess your **SINS** to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective!!
**IF WE DO NOT ASK THE FATHER IN JESUS NAME TO FORGIVE US OUR SINS AND REPENT OF OUR SINS GOD WILL DISCIPLINE US**
Revelation 3:19: Jesus says, "Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline, so be earnest and repent!!"
Hebrews 12:5-11: Do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when He rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines those He loves, and He chastens **EVERYONE** He accepts as a son! Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as His children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? If you are not disciplined--and everyone undergoes discipline--then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in His holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it!
What does GOD Almighty say believers in Messiah are, Sinners saved by Grace OR something completely different
Posted : 23 Sep, 2018 03:15 PM
George, maybe you could expound on your original post. I know it’s hard to get much content into these posts, for me it is anyway.
I’m hope I’m one who refuses to follow unqualified “pastor” drivel that is contrary to God’s Revelation. I try to keep informed by reading and studying His revealed Word and often find myself in conflict with certain pastors. Interestingly, Jesus came in conflict with religious leaders as well.
I agree with you that biblical believers are refered to as saints, albeit—not to be confused with Roman Catholic dogma in which “saint” refers to an extra-biblical anomaly composed of “canonized” persons, that are assumed to reside only in heaven. I don’t wish to get sidetracked with RC fiction. Nevertheless, and contrary-wise, the biblical saint refers to all believers residing on earth as you indicated. I think we’re in agreement so far.
I was wondering if you could explain why you object to saints being referred to as sinners, but only in the sense they still sin. I ask because of supporting biblical references. In Ephesians the saints are encouraged to resist sin — “But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints" (Ephesians 5:3). In Romans, Paul refers to himself as sinner. In John, the believers are in the habit of confessing and forsaking sin and per the “Lord’s prayer. It would seem then, “sinners saved by grace” is a term contextually denoting our remaining earthly experience. I agree we are truly **declared** righteous i.e. set apart as saints because we’ve been justified by God, as you indicated. I think we’re in agreement up to here as well.
It’s at this point I’m asking for clarification from you concerning our remaining sin nature still residing within us and which often expresses itself in ways that disappoint us even after having been declared righteous regarding our heavenly standing.
What does GOD Almighty say believers in Messiah are, Sinners saved by Grace OR something completely different
Posted : 24 Sep, 2018 10:26 AM
More ridiculous quotes by gracenotworkssaves:
"Most people may not understand who they are in Messiah, this accounts for calling themselves 'sinners saved by grace.'"
" If **A BELIEVER IS NOT A *SINNER* SAVED BY GRACE*{????} then what does the Word of GOD Almighty say we are."
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
Romans 3:23-24: **ALL HAVE **SINNED** AND FALL SHORT** of the glory of God, and all are **JUSTIFIED BY HIS **GRACE** through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus!!
I Timothy 1:15,16: Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: **CHRIST JESUS CAME INTO THE WORLD TO **SAVE SINNERS**--of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display His immense patience as an example of those who would believe in Him and receive eternal life.
** WE ARE COMMANDED TO WALK AS JESUS WALKED {SEE JOHN 2:6} AND TO BE HOLY AS GOD IS HOLY, WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE, AND SO WE SIN DAILY. AND WE SHOULD **DAILY** ASK GOD TO FORGIVE US OUR SINS AND PURIFY US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS**!!
I John 1:8-10: If we claim to be without **SIN**, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we **CONFESS OUR SINS**, He is faithful and just and will forgive us **OUR SINS** and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have **NOT SINNED** we make Him out to be a liar and His Word is not in us!
Luke 11:1-4: The disciples asked Jesus, "Lord teach as to pray." Jesus replied to His disciples, "When you pray, say: '**FATHER**, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. Give us each day our **DAILY** bread. Forgive us **OUR SINS**, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us!'"
Galatians 6:1,2: Brothers, if someone is caught in a **SIN**, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ!
James 516: Confess your **SINS** to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective!!
**IF WE DO NOT ASK THE FATHER IN JESUS NAME TO FORGIVE US OUR SINS AND REPENT OF OUR SINS GOD WILL DISCIPLINE US**
Revelation 3:19: Jesus says, "Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline, so be earnest and repent!!"
Hebrews 12:5-11: Do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when He rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines those He loves, and He chastens **EVERYONE** He accepts as a son! Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as His children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? If you are not disciplined--and everyone undergoes discipline--then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in His holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it!
What does GOD Almighty say believers in Messiah are, Sinners saved by Grace OR something completely different
Posted : 24 Sep, 2018 04:22 PM
Hi David, thank you for your intelligent reply.
I ask the question:
Are you a ' sinner' because you sin,OR Do you sin because you are SINFUL.
One is the result of ones acrions, the other is the result of ones condition.
Mark 8 verse 38
"For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”
Luke5 verse 8
8 But when Simon Peter saw that, he fell down at Jesus’ feet, saying, “Go away from me Lord, for I am a sinful man!”9 For amazement had seized him and
Luke 24 verse 7
7 saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.”
Romans 8 verse 3
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
Man sins because he has a SINFUL nature, not a sinner nature
What does GOD Almighty say believers in Messiah are, Sinners saved by Grace OR something completely different
Posted : 25 Sep, 2018 10:12 AM
More ridiculous quotes by gracenotworkssaves:
"Most people may not understand who they are in Messiah, this accounts for calling themselves 'sinners saved by grace.'"
" If **A BELIEVER IS **NOT** A SINNER SAVED BY GRACE**{???} then what does the Word of GOD Almighty say we are."
"Are you a ' sinner' because you sin, OR Do you sin because you are SINFUL." {???}
"Man sins because he has a SINFUL nature, not a sinner nature."{???}
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
Romans 3:9-18, 23,24: Jews and Gentiles alike are **ALL** under the power of sin. As it is written, "There is **NO ONE** righteous; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The poison of vipers are on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know. their is no fear of God before their eyes!".... There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for **ALL** have **SINNED** and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified**BY HIS GRACE**through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus!!
I Timothy 1:15,16: Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: **CHRIST JESUS CAME INTO THE WORLD TO **SAVE SINNERS**--of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display His immense patience as an example of those who would believe in Him and receive eternal life.
** WE ARE COMMANDED TO WALK AS JESUS WALKED {SEE JOHN 2:6} AND TO BE HOLY AS GOD IS HOLY, WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE, AND SO WE SIN DAILY. AND WE SHOULD **DAILY** ASK GOD TO FORGIVE US OUR SINS AND PURIFY US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS**!!
I John 1:8-10: If we claim to be without **SIN**, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we **CONFESS OUR SINS**, He is faithful and just and will forgive us **OUR SINS** and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have **NOT SINNED** we make Him out to be a liar and His Word is not in us!
Luke 11:1-4: The disciples asked Jesus, "Lord teach as to pray." Jesus replied to His disciples, "When you pray, say: '**FATHER**, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. Give us each day our **DAILY** bread. Forgive us **OUR SINS**, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us!'"
Galatians 6:1,2: Brothers, if someone is caught in a **SIN**, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ!
James 516: Confess your **SINS** to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective!!
**IF WE DO NOT ASK THE FATHER IN JESUS NAME TO FORGIVE US OUR SINS AND REPENT OF OUR SINS GOD WILL DISCIPLINE US**
Revelation 3:19: Jesus says, "Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline, so be earnest and repent!!"
Hebrews 12:5-11: Do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when He rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines those He loves, and He chastens **EVERYONE** He accepts as a son! Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as His children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? If you are not disciplined--and everyone undergoes discipline--then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in His holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it!
What does GOD Almighty say believers in Messiah are, Sinners saved by Grace OR something completely different
Posted : 26 Sep, 2018 09:52 AM
**THERE ARE THOSE WHO MAKE SPIRITUAL STATEMENTS BUT DO NOT GIVE GOD'S WORD CREDIT AND GLORY FOR THESE STATEMENTS. THIS IS THE HEIGHT OF SELF PRAISE AND SELF IDOLATRY AND SATANIC CONCEIT!!!
2 Timothy 3:16,17; 4:1-4: All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge **PREACH THE WORD**, be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the Truth and turn aside to myths!!
John 14:21-24: Jesus says, "Whoever has My commands and keeps them is the one who loves Me... Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching, My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them.
Luke 6:46-49: Jesus says, "As for everyone who comes to Me and hears **MY WORDS** and **PUTS THEM INTO PRACTICE**. I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid foundation on rock. When the flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears **MY WORDS** and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete!"
I Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you.
Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"
I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, God's love is truly made complete in him!
Matthew 4:4: Jesus says, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on **EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD**!"
Luke 8:15: Jesus says, "But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the **WORD**, retain it, and by perseverance produce a crop."
John 17:17: Jesus prays to His Father, "Sanctify them by the Truth, **YOUR WORD IS TRUTH**!"
Acts 20:32: Paul says, "Now I commit you to God and to the **WORD OF HIS GRACE**, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified!"
James 1:18; He chose to give us **BIRTH THROUGH THE WORD** of Truth!!
I Corinthians 15:2: By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the **WORD** preached to you. Otherwise you have believed in vain!
2 Corinthians 4:2: We do not use deception, nor do we distort the **WORD OF GOD**!
Ephesians 1:13: You also were included in Christ **WHEN** you heard the **WORD** of Truth, the gospel of your salvation.
Ephesians 2:17: Take the sword of the Spirit, which is the **WORD OF GOD**!
Colossians 1:25: I have become its servant by the commission God gave to me to present to you the **WORD OF GOD IN ALL ITS FULLNESS**!
Colossians 3:16: Let the **WORD OF CHRIST** dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom!
I Thessalonians 2:13: We thank God continually because, when you received the **WORD OF GOD**, which you heard from us, you received it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the **WORD OF GOD**!
2 Timothy 2:15: Do your best to present yourselves to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who **CORRECTLY HANDLES THE WORD ** of truth!
**DOES GOD"S WORD SAY THAT **ADDING** OR **TAKING WORD'S AWAY** FROM GOD's WORD IS AN UMPARDONABLE SIN**??
Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC popes} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."
THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, �All authority in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!�
John 15:1-5,16: Jesus says, "I am the true vine, and My Father is the gardener, He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear **FRUIT** He prunes so that it will be even more **FRUITFUL**. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in Me as I also remain in you. No branch can bear **FRUIT** by itself; it must remain in the vine, Neither can you bear **FRUIT** unless you remain in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. If you remain in Me and I in you, you will bear **MUCH FRUIT**; **APART FROM ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING**... You did not choose Me but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!!"
I Corinthians 3:5-7: What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe--as the Lord has assigned each his task. I planted the seed, and Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither the one who plants and the one who waters is anythiung, **BUT ONLY GOD, WHO MAKES THINGS GROW**!
I Peter 4:10,11: Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms. If anyone speaks they should do so as one who speaks **THE VERY WORDS OF GOD**. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things **GOD MAY BE PRAISED** through Jesus Christ. To Him be the **GLORY** and power for ever and ever!! Amen.
Revelation 5:9,10,12,13: "You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because You were slain, and with Your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. ... "Worthy is the **LAMB**, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and **GLORY AND PRAISE**! To Him who sits on the throne and to the **LAMB** be **PRAISE** and honor and **GLORY** and power for ever and ever!!"
I Corinthians 10:31: So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, **DO IT **ALL** FOR THE **GLORY** OF GOD**!!
What does GOD Almighty say believers in Messiah are, Sinners saved by Grace OR something completely different
Posted : 26 Sep, 2018 02:09 PM
The 10 Commandments List, Short Form*
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.
***Which one has been broken???***
Yahshua/Jesus says if you break one you've broken them all...Yahshua/Jesus also said to the man that asked which is the greatest Commandment?...Yahshua/Jesus reply...Love GOD with all your heart mind soul...and the 2nd is like the 1st...Love your neighbor as your self... I'm not seeing or reading any or from this someone that is all about Obeying Commands and Scripture that continually bashes and disrespects posters calling them "Satan worshipers" or bashing a poster for the Biblical Scriptures they use in the discussion by calling them "Satanic Quote's"...well...which One of the Commands have you broken????
