Personally, I had spent my whole life at school in a Catholic school, had myself attending the sermons at the Catholic Church, and that was before I converted to be a Christian. My question is, why the Catholics think that Mary is different with other chosen women? For example, if Mary said no to carry Jesus in her belly, then it might be the next chosen woman named Martha who would carry Him, and that Martha would now fill in the Novena and hail prayer, not "Hail Mary" but "Hail Martha"? This is just a question out of curiosity, I've asked my Catholic friends about this and they all answer the same as "Mary is the mother of Jesus", then I replied back as "Martha could be the mother of Jesus", they didn't reply back. Could someone here give me a scripture on why there are Novena prayer and Hail Mary prayer?
I do adore Mary as she has been one of the greatest and blessed woman at all time - she was totally the woman of God with huge faith within her, but I can't find anywhere in the Bible about we should pray Novena or Hail Mary prayer.
PS. Yeah.. You guys can discuss it here rather than "messing" around in Barefoot's topic lol
I used to be Catholic, went to a Catholic high school. As we are Catholic country, elementary and high school has kind of compulsory Catholic catechism, there is allotted time for the teaching of Catholic doctrines in public and private schools except a few schools owned and run by other congregations. In Catholic private schools you pay for subjects to memorize Catholic doctrines.
I was in a state university that a Muslim friend asked me why Catholics pray the Hail Mary when it is just a greeting of Elizabeth? A�what? I was praying it and I don�t know the origin, it was not taught, we were just told to memorize, we were not taught to read the bible and have bible sharing, like read a chapter and share how do we understand it and how is it applied to our present life. All I can remember is memorize this and memorize that never asking the whys. It is the way of life, not so many whys. This Muslim knew more of my religion then than I do, he even knew of the other congregations� doctrines. So to answer JesusLovesYouAndMe, nowhere in the bible is the instruction for novena and the Hail Mary prayer is a greeting of Elizabeth when Mary visited her. Why it became a prayer, uttered again and again, I don�t know.
What about if we consider a close relative or friend we were close enough to know her ways before she died? She lived a simple life, wore simple clothes, modest, humble, never show off. Do you think she will be happy if in her memory she will be dressed in heavily glittered gowns with elaborate head dress that is so heavy? That is what�s being done to Mary�s memory. I really think she is not happy with what people are doing to her, put in a pedestal, prayed to in different languages which she could not understand unless she became god herself. If she could talk back I guess she will say why involve me when you can pray your petition direct to our God? She became an idol without her knowledge.
Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. -Matthew 1:24-25
No matter how you try to skip around it, "knew her" in context of this verse is the Biblical expression for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. Mary remained a virgin throughout her pregnancy and at the time of Jesus' birth, but according to Scripture, sometime after she brought forth the Lord Jesus, Joseph "knew" his wife.
Wait...so it's sin/disgusting/carnal to do what God designed us to do within the holy confines of marriage? That's the picture I'm getting from your argument Arch, and I don't understand that at all.
Mary's mother, St. Anne, vowed that she would devote the child to the service of the Lord, as Samuel had been by his mother
(1 Sam. 1:11). NIV
11 And she made a vow, saying, �LORD Almighty, if you will only look on your servant�s misery and remember me, and not forget your servant but give her a son, then I will give him to the LORD for all the days of his life, and no razor will ever be used on his head.�
This meant that Mary would thus serve the Lord at the Temple, as women had for centuries
(1 Sam. 2:22)
22 Now Eli, who was very old, heard about everything his sons were doing to all Israel and how they slept with the women who served at the entrance to the tent of meeting.
and as Anna the prophetess did at the time of Jesus� birth
(Luke 2:36�37).
36 There was also a prophet, Anna, the daughter of Penuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage, 37 and then was a widow until she was eighty-four.[a] She never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying.
A life of continual, devoted service to the Lord at the Temple meant that Mary would not be able to live the ordinary life of a child-rearing mother. Rather, she was vowed to a life of perpetual virginity.
So Mary, from as far back as she could remember, expected to always remain a Virgin.
An important historical document which supports the teaching of Mary�s perpetual virginity is the Protoevangelium of James, which was written probably less than sixty years after the conclusion of Mary�s earthly life (around A.D. 120), when memories of her life were still vivid in the minds of many.
According to this book, due to considerations of ceremonial cleanliness, it was eventually necessary for Mary (a consecrated "Virgin of the Lord�) to have a guardian or protector who would respect her vow of virginity.
Thus, according to the Protoevangelium, Joseph, an elderly widower who already had children, was chosen to be her spouse. (This would also explain why Joseph was apparently dead by the time of Jesus� adult ministry, since he does not appear during it in the gospels, and since Mary is entrusted to John, rather than to her husband Joseph, at the crucifixion).
Today most Protestants are unaware of these early beliefs regarding Mary�s Virginity and the proper interpretation of "the brethren of the Lord." And yet, the Protestant Reformers themselves
�Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli�
honored the perpetual virginity of Mary and recognized it as the teaching of the Bible, as have other, more modern Protestants.
There's no scriptural proof to support your claim. Sorry. "Some men said", isn't enough to make me believe that we should show her the devotion/reverence/veneration that the Catholic church shows her. Not even close. Why don't they have a "hail Joseph" prayer? Or a "hail Enoch/Elijah" prayer? They were translated to heaven without seeing death. How holy is that! Well....maybe Mary was chosen to replace the eternal virgin goddesses of the pagan Romans? Just sayin'. Strange coincidence.
