Walter and Cattle, you both had great points. I have to say the most powerful prayers I have ever prayed have mostly been for others, and not always others that I particularly liked. But prayers out of genuine love and concern for another person are a very powerful thing because that is what God wants us to do. He wants us to stop looking at ourselves and be genuinely concerned about each other, even those that can really be a thorn in our side.
Once I was really having a difficult time on a new job with a person that was definitely a bitter thorny type person. I recall one day where she was to train me, and I doubt that her words to me added up to a dozen through the course of more than four hours and most of them would have been: "No!" "Don't" and "Just sit over there!" She would let me do nothing, nor would she let me watch her work.
Later her words to me were, "we got that last guy fired, and you're next!" I was scared of her. She was a very angry and bitter person.
I started praying for her because I thought that it must be hard to live life being her. I asked the Lord to bless her, to touch her life and make it better, for even though she seemed happy in her bitterness, I had my doubts that she could be.
I made an effort to pray like that for her daily. Almost immediately I was given an assignment away from her. Within a month she had made a decision to see someone and get on meds. Within three months, she had a boyfriend, and in less than six months, she found a new job and left.
I still work there. Prayer does change things. Self focused prayer has always taken me a lot longer, even if it is for good and for His Glory. I prayed for close to ten years before I was delivered from cigarettes, but when it happened it was easy, and that very day there was a gas leak at my house.
But back on track I think when you pray with genuine love for others, you really do start to see things happen. I think that is among the simplest, but finest gifts of the Spirit, and I think we all have the ability to really use it and mean it for the Glory of God, for God can do all things, and when we ask Him to bless others, He will, and it is a wonderful thing.
In fact God recommends that we abstain from relations, but if we cannot, THEN we should marry.
So here is a thought.
If you knew for fact somehow that your walk for Christ would be richer and more rewarding without a spouse and family, would you be willing to put that away and go forward with the Mission the Lord designed for you?
I have actually given this a great deal of thought, especially these last few years. There are so many counterfeit Christians out there that believe in a buffet style Christianity that neither hold Truth, nor does it hold Obedience in the Word.
If I found myself married to a man that put himself out there as a Christian, and walked the walk till he found his wife, then suddenly he no longer wants to go to church or participate in Christian activities that bond us as Christians or nurture others in their walk, what then?
How many of us have been involved with people that "changed" into someone we barely recognized? You can say that evidently a person has rushed into things when this happens, but I don't really know that is the case. When you look at all the domestic violence out there, and frankly if you really knew how much of it was going on, you would be very shocked, those people obviously didn't get involved with someone believing they would get hit.
I think there are a lot of counterfeit hearts out there, both for Christianity and for those who just want to pretend they are "good people", but the truth is that without the Lord in our lives it is impossible to be "good" in any way really. Even with the Lord in our lives, we become better, but we all fall very short of what good really is. We don't even have a concept of it.
So many of today's relationships in the world do not have God in them and there is a vile self centered selfishness that seems to prevail and when you have two people that have that quality, it is probably a wonder there isn't a whole lot more domestic violence than there is already.
This have become a truly difficult world to bring children into as well. I am beginning to think more and more, our focus should be on helping each other, and praising God and not such a focus on our own self for we all know the days ahead are only going to get much worse, before He comes, and they get better.
Godsjude, I totally agree with what you said about He is not a God of confusion.
I have found that words like confusion, chaos, addiction, obsession,complexity, deception, self serving, and conceit are the focus of a darker spirit.
Words like Health and Well being, comfort, peace, joy, clarity, simplicity, honesty, truth and obedience are Ways of the Lord.
When we look to discern what comes at us, it is good to remember the ways of the Lord for His ways are not always our ways, the ways of the world or the ways of a darker spirit.
Dark spirits take beauty and twist it. They appeal to our sense of what we think is beautiful, but what we think is beautiful and what God see's as beautiful are not the same.
When we try to look at things with out Glasses of God on, we tend to start understanding a little more about what is important and matters in His realm.
It is our nature to think that attractive people are good, which is totally not accurate as a perception, but when you look at things with the eyes of the spirit, then you see the things I described as dark forces at work within them.
What is beautiful in a person is not their hair or teeth or the way they dress, its the things that connect them to the Lord, which are the things that are of God that bring peace, joy, comfort, clarity etc.
I think our spiritual gifts develop as we study the Word and become closer to the Lord, for how can those gifts develop or become strong in someone who does not understand who the Lord is or what He wants or expects with us?
I think He wants us to Want these thing through Him and when we learn to Trust in Him, He reveals His ways to us.
I am glad you said that Dennis, for it brings a thought to mind here, and that is that we are all given our limitations and crosses to bare.
There are things we accept in other and there are deal breakers there too. We all have them.
Working with the incarcerated I have learned one thing from them for sure, and that is that we all have our own stuff to clean up. Every one of us, we are a mess. Some more obvious with alcohol and drugs, but others more subtle like hoarding disorders or issues with anger and abuse.
Just as we are all given gifts, we are also all given limitations. So the real question becomes, can you accept my limitations? We all have limitations we can accept and other limitations we cannot. For me, alcohol and rage destroyed my marriage, and I find those limitations extremely hard to tolerate. I don't like to be around intoxicated people at all, and the minute things start turning south in any way, I am out of there. Would I have trouble accepting someone with seizures? No. Mental illnesses, well, are they someone who understands their illness and stays on their medication or are they someone that uses their illness to manipulate people and will punish those around them by going off their meds? I have been around both types of people, one I could easily get used to, the other, I don't know that I could.
After living through abuse, I can tell you that there is a limit to how much abuse anyone can take before they take a way out, whether its a healthy walking out the door, or an unsavory exit into drugs, alcohol, insanity or suicide.
Anyone who has ever worked with disabled people, something I did for six months, can tell you that some were delightful people t work with, and were truly inspiring and others were spoiled and small little people that were truly unhappy, and seemed only to enjoy making everyone around them as miserable as they are.
I think our limitations are the thing that always makes it difficult for us, whatever those limitations are, for we see our own limitations as being so very much bigger than those of someone else. Couldn't would all just say, "oh, that nothing, you should be glad you don't have MY cross"
I think the challenge is finding a way to stop focusing on our limitation and find a way to turn it into something more. A really good example of this is a ministry called "Life Without Limbs". Google that and check it out. I have also seen ministers that have cerebral palsy, and the keyboard player from 33 miles (Colin Stoddard) should be totally deaf. Faith helps us overcome so very much, even if it does not take away our limitations.
It is always easier to use our most difficult issues as a crutch then to figure out how to turn them into a blessing. I truly believe the Lord did not give us things that we cannot find a way to turn around and overcome. We all have them, but they are different in everyone.
The devil comes to deceive, to kill, to destroy. He is not a spirit of health or well being. Satan spreads obsession and insanity, jealousy and greed. Jesus healed.
I have never seen a wicked spirit in the Bible heal someone. We are told in the last days the anti christ will be wounded in the head and make a miraculous recovery to mimic Christ's return from the dead, but that is about as close as I have ever seen to a healing connected to dark spirits.
I think you will often see deceptive practices from some who claim to work in the name of the Lord, you know, the basic snake oil salesman dispelling chicken livers.
Deception is in the nature of a dark spirit. Health and well being is in the nature of our God.
But there will always be those that refuse to believe, for even when the Lord returned, Thomas heard from people he knew and trusted and still did not believe.
Anytime you find a miracle, you will find those that attach a "reasonable explanation" to it and refuse to believe the Hand of God could or would intervene in anything.
But I challenge that if the Lord your God has counted every hair on your head, then who would He not be concerned with you health and well being?
The Bible teaches that if we have but the faith of a mustard seed that we could command a mountain to move and it would. Why then if in faith we ask for the health of a brother, would He not comply if it is within His Will to accomplish without disrupting His design?
Are we going to get our every request? Most likely not, and the Lord has His reasons and we need to trust in that as much as we trust that He will not withhold His blessings when it is in our best interest.
It has been my experience that those who Trust God believe in miracles and have seen them, and those that trust in their own ways and upon themselves are the ones that are skeptical and unsure and look for a "reasonable explanation".
Those of little (or no) faith, will look for these explanations until the day that every tongue confesses and every knee bows.
But blessed are those who have not seen, and still believe.
Something I have learned is that there is nothing accidental, incidental or coincidental about the way God works in our lives. We are all given gifts. Some of us can sing or play instruments beautifully, other can paint or draw, some are amazing craftsmen. I think a good mechanic is not only a gifted person, but a person that is a gift to those he helps. These gifts are obvious when sports figures break records or actors win awards for outstanding performances.
Why would gifts of the spirit be any different? Did God not design your eyes to be blue or brown or green, etc? Did He not design your hair color, and your height? Did He not give you the talent to be able to do what ever it is that you do that I mentioned above? Sure maybe you needed a certain amount of education, study or practice, but I could have every advantage and my art will look like an elementary student's or my instrumental music performance will probably land me a polite invitation to never pick that thing up again cuz cat's being murdered would likely not sound worse. But God did give me many wonderful talents that I find easy. I can cut hair well , I can express myself easily and have an ability to find empathy for what others need. Are these not also spiritual gifts?
So why is it so different when someone has an ability to pray and someone is healed or to understand words that no one can define? To start with, THEY are not really gifted or talented, they just have an ability to connect with the Lord on a level that others might not have a current ability for. It is God that opens eyes, heals broken or sick bodies. It is Faith and Obedience that brings favor, for there are certain things you normally find in people with spiritual gifts. They give the Glory to the Lord, they give Thanks and Praise to the Lord, and they believe in four little words, "Thy Will Be Done!" These are people that cry out to the Lord for assistance, understanding, and they seek to be close to a Savior they Love.
I think that is the key to spiritual gifts. If you want to see a miracle, try being one for someone else. If anyone goes forward to do the Lord's work and help his Brother in Christ, the Lord will work through him. I believe that for I have seen it over and over and over.
I do not believe in coincidences. I believe God works in Wondrous Ways. Every day, every breath is a Gift, and if we could understand how precious, I think we would all use such gifts more wisely.
Welcome to the forums. I have listened to Joel Osteen on many occasions and he preaches a very good sermon, and I am certain he reaches many people. Have you noticed how HUGE his church is? Obviously there are some people between that BIG church and his television ministry that do feel like they are being fed through his sermons.
Myself however, tend to believe that most of his sermons follow a pattern of the power of positive thinking. Not a bad thing necessarily, but for me it is like listening to the same sermon over and over and over.
It starts out with a joke, and then moves into examples of one person believing in something hard enough and long enough until that blessing is bestowed upon them. Like if their faith is strong enough, God will not deny their dreams.
I am not terribly comfortable with this, because sometimes our ways are not God's ways, and our idea of a blessing is not what the Lord has in mind for us. It might be my thinking that is messed up on this, but I have to wonder how the ones that lay all their hopes and dreams on this way of thinking might feel if that isn't the blessing that is going to be bestowed upon them. Seems to me that would really open the devil's door for that "What a LOSER YOU ARE" speech
I think he is a good man that reaches a lot of people, but I don't think he is the right preacher to feed me. I need a little more variety in my spiritual diet.
That's just me. My apologies to any that just love him, and that is okay too, for I do believe that he does reach many, probably more than I ever can or will.
When I first heard him, I loved him, but frankly now, I need more.
Wish I could say that had been my experience, Rick, but unfortunately it has not been. Nor has it been that way for many of the people on this forum, who have given their heart to someone, only to find they have gotten involved with someone else. I consider this to be a lie. When people lead you to believe you have a relationship while they are secretly engaging in a relationship with someone else seems to be common. So are other lies, and we can usually tell when we are being lied to if we pay attention and don't try to talk ourselves out of it.
Lies are the biggest reason I have dumped relationships because if you cannot have trust and believe the person, then are they really a Christian, or just someone that wants to wear a label? Under the Broken Hearts thread, there are a lot of men that have had this experience as well. I would like to think that there are a great number of suitable people of both genders that "fit the bill" but realistically on another thread, someone pointed out the stats on the success of online relationships, and that was quite an eye opener.
I think perhaps you are a minority my friend or there would be a lot less single people on this forum, but that is simply my experience.
Its alright Jim, Jesus didn't come for perfect people, and if He had, we would still be awaiting His Birth. Shame is something we all have in our rear view mirror, and any who claim otherwise would fall under that counterfeit Christianity thing Pastor John Hagee spoke on yesterday. It not about where you have been, but where you are and where you are going with the Lord Holding your hand.
