Is a self defence couse acceptable for christian women?
Posted : 2 Aug, 2017 12:06 AM
Other way around mostly, unless you mean a certain kind of dance. Dancing developed with music not war or religion. If you mean coordinated drum/beat/base dancing then yes that originated from from war and/or religion... but was not unique to africa. Africa just happened to naturally embrace the drum and the usage was/is not the same all accross it mostly due to ethnic divergence.
Is a self defence couse acceptable for christian women?
Posted : 2 Aug, 2017 07:10 AM
Morris Dancing developed from a subjugated society that was not allowed weapons so the skills required for sword play were codified into a dance, we see this in many traditional dances such as the haka etc etc
War dances according to wiki
A war dance is a dance involving mock combat, usually in reference to tribal warrior societies where such dances were performed as a ritual connected with endemic warfare. Martial arts in various cultures can be performed in dance-like settings for various reasons, such as for evoking ferocity in preparation for battle or showing off skill in a more stylized manner. It could also be for celebration of valor and conquest. Many such martial arts incorporate music, especially strong percussive rhythms.
when you learn martial arts you have to learn various Kata's or dances, dance has long been considered a form of worship, story telling or spiritual pursuits, in modern times it has been turned into an entertainment industry, but where martial disciplines are concerned it has always been a way to codify moves and prepare the warrior for battle, the repetition of action forms muscle memory, in the army they do drills ie repetitive movements again and again, give a Veteran a rifle or gun that they haven't touched in several decades and they will strip clean and reassemble faster than a youth, they have learnt that skill and it's ingrained, you never forget.
Dancers and musicians would often go into battle first, the best dancers were often the best warriors because they were more aware of their enviroment, 3D spacialisation is key in dance, where you are in space and time, what your body is doing and how o get to the next position or form, dancers are dangerous people, Dancers were often worship leaders, David danced before the lord "I'll become more abased than this", of course this is in relation to men and war, the worship side involves everyone.
Dance has been considered a spiritual pursuit long before it was considered entertainment or a past time, eastern dance is perhaps one of the most authentic with reference to it's originating history, so it is easier to trace a line to it's roots, where western culture is concerned folk dances give a more accurate glimpse into the past, whether it is the dress or the moves it is possible uncover the reasoning and sometimes the era in which it was formed.
Is a self defence couse acceptable for christian women?
Posted : 2 Aug, 2017 08:23 AM
"Dance has been considered a spiritual pursuit long before it was considered entertainment or a past time" That is something that is very difficult to prove conclusively without extensive written records. What makes THAT complicated is that the earliest records were more for religious/political than historical purposes and have to be taken with a sack of salt. That religious records of dance was mostly found could mean that only religious dancing was recorded for religious reasons.... why would a ancient scholar mention regular dancing when he is dealing with religious dancing? Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Not all aspects of ancient life was recorded because the recording itself was expensive and most people do not bother to mention the obvious. The modern tendency to record even the details about the details is exactly that, modern. The only slight exception to that rule is the bible and even that leaves the vast majority of cultural detail out.
Is a self defence couse acceptable for christian women?
Posted : 3 Aug, 2017 07:31 PM
you are right about absence.
however there are account of dances being banned, morris was, the bans often covered religious or martial dance, the reasons ? well control is the most obvious.
the african pottery depicting dance that I saw was connected with the worship of deity and the eastern side for which there are more records that talk a lot about spirituality, some of the martial arts manuals are very explicit in who they are asking for help from, quite a few also point to how to put it ? psychic esp mind over matter stuff for which they ask for help from their deities, I'm desperatetly trying not to say too much at this point as I'm torn between what I know and not talking about such practices as the ungodly do... this is one where I would say if you are desperate to know go look though I wouldn't advise it.
Dance or traditional dance is a more earthly thing, there are ritual dances for spring, rain and harvest, I can't think of one land mass that doesn't have seasonal or earth based dances, these are quite connected to the spiritual side, if you have done any gardening you probably know all the worries that a gardener feels, gardeners are closer to real life than pretty much anyone, lets take away the radio internet weather forecasting and science, what do we have as a guiding light ? what would an outwardly looking simplistic or primitive society look like in their outlook to the world ? would they attribute the seasons to God and act accordingly ? set up some physical representation of that god, lie prostrate and dance before it ? I have learnt that how I percieve the world is from a western perspective, I often find myself asking people why they do certain things because they are alien to the land I live in, what I found in the most simplistic way is that we live in an instant culture and in a lot of respects have no connection to the land and our perspective is so very different and I find myself coming to the position that it is wrong, Adam tend the garden ! not the Hypermarket LOL so the ways they show are only alien because our culture in effect is alien we are insulated from the land by our technology, that makes us less reliant on God, I find foreigners from 3rd world countries are generally more spiritual because they are connected to the land.
I said all that to paint a picture of mindset, we in the west look at the world in a particular way that is alien to most of the world, we don't count anything as so until it's codified, the double latin naming system is an outstanding example, a native says this is such and such and so and so; and we give it a new name and call it a discovery ??
why is this important ? well over here a fact is not a fact until it's quantified and codified even if the evidence is unassailable, so my question is this if most of the dance we know of culturally historically has either religious or martial significance; how connected were the people to that ? was it a "spring is coming get ready!" or was it the type of attitude we have in the west ? "it's a bit chilly today", when you look at these things you have to get your head around the significance for the people doing it and their world perspective, that's the really hard bit, understanding the thread that runs through a culture, when you have that it's much easier to understand their ways and the significance of the things that they do, so no amount of western methods in proving this or that will work so well unless you take the surrounding cultures and cross correlate to get an overview, we don't take what they say as gospel we "bracket it" until it comes into line, whilst that is ok with impirical methods we miss a lot, so then we call it the oral history etc etc so we can file it under "maybe", that's what they did with the Bible, but even that is now being proven true, there is a thread going on here isn't there ? we are indoctrinated into dismissing the spiritual in favour of the Impirical, I blame Lyle for that.
I studied Dance in the 1990's I was doing a Btec in performing arts, music was my thing and dance was a bit effeminate, I ended up focussing on dance, the story telling the history the different cultures and ways of communication really made me sit up and pay attention, it was just like music abstract-proscribed yet containing communicable thoughts without words, I found myself drawn to Indian dance, not physically but academically, a lot of it was relating the stories of various religious texts, subtle hand movements conveyed in great detail to those who understood the form what was being said, now that was mind blowing, I found that there was a layer to communication that I totally missed and didn't understand, that lead me to looking into other cultures dances and folk arts, most of it was religious seasonal or martial as most of the resouces I found were just that.
I can't give you all that experience or knowledge as it's a lifetime, but I can ask you to look at it from the perspective from which it was drawn and ask yourself in which category would this be religious seasonal or martial ? in most of the cultures I have looked at, the seperating line was almost non existent, the attitude of God is in everything was quite evident, again suspend what you know and look afresh because most of the world ie non european offshoots have a completely different perspective, ask people that you know from where you are "how do you percieve the seasons what does your culture say about dance, how do you learn to war and is there a common thread ?", you'll be asking a tell me how it is so question and it probably won't fit into your understanding, so you'll ask another and the kerching you'll say that was so in our history and we did this, correlation street, and suddenly history is alive and not so different to what you see happening today....
apologies for the long response, I didn't answer all you asked or refute all your points, that would take more time than I have, I concentrated on the thing that seemed important, please have a look at what is available online and ask the questions, there are many sites that support what I say, they have come to it from a different perspective than I but that is the beauty of it, many lines many threads to correlation street, a bit like the flood story, every culture has one.....
Is a self defence couse acceptable for christian women?
Posted : 3 Aug, 2017 10:46 PM
I'm just saying give credit where credit is due and blaim where blaim is due, it's VERY easy to go overboard and just needlessly hate everything in a certain direction... knee-jerk responses never end well and cause a cloud of emotional misunderstanding.
However, when it comes to romantic dancing there IS the sexual aspect completely unrelated to other kinds of spirituality that is a problem. A quote from Sayyid Qutb after he visited a (ironically) Church Dance in America "They danced to the tunes of the gramophone, and the dance floor was replete with tapping feet, enticing legs, arms wrapped around waists, lips pressed to lips, and chests pressed to chests. The atmosphere was full of desire..." My first response was nonsense but but my first real thought was this Islamic proto-radical was completely and utterly correct. Previously I had from various other sources heard variations of "dancing is a vertical expression of horizontal desire" and that makes sense because personally I have felt uncomfortable dancing with just anyone (moreso with my mother but that just felt stupid the one time I did it as well, like a child playing a grownup game and not getting it). I have nothing against two married people dancing but personally others should refrain, there is a reason the married couple has their "first dance" at a wedding. Dancing can be a physical activity that leads to fornication in the otherwise chaste.... merely holding hands already gives enough of a buzz already I one is honest enough to admit it.
Basically I don't like outright banning everything in sight, it must be thought through with proper foundations in it's implementation.
Is a self defence couse acceptable for christian women?
Posted : 7 Aug, 2017 09:17 AM
apologies been busy.
Your thoughts on the matter have an unexpected weight, I had not considered that perspective though I do remember hearing of it in past times.
Dance as a past time and an activity for social cohesion ie wedding etc etc is not a problem if those participating are having fun, it's when conquest becomes obvious that honour is displaced.
we have traditionally had dancing at weddings but as contraception was not available in times past and the culture shied away from unmarried conception accepted forms of conduct were adhered to, mostly.. so our perception was different then, now it seems most wedding dances are alcohol fuelled opportunities for revelling in the worship of self, whether that is by oneself of casually with another.
the issue that I see as important is if it is intentionally made and designed to serve another deity then it is a no no for christians, serving other gods, don't do as the heathen do etc etc it's not a new principle, God warns the Israelites not to get caught up in the ways of the inhabitants of the land as it will draw them away from God.
ever danced to an obviously overtly sexual song ? ever danced to a song with lyrics that intentionally dishonour God ? I am both fortunate and unfortunate in that I won't do certain things and agree or go along with certain things that are popular in culture, fortunate because I have the strength to say no and honour God, unfortunate that because I would take a stand I don't do as the others do in going against thatwhich I know to be true, the church is rife with heresies, we will be judged on what we know, that's why Jesus spoke in parables, it is an internal battle that can only be won with the spirit, there are many scriptures that cover those kinds of battles, it's not a foregone conclusion but there is a question of whom will we serve in the heat of the conflict ? spiritual warfare 101 expect that you will mess up at some point, deal with it quickly and move on before the enemy turns it into a crevasse...
We can use the argument that putting restrictions on what we do doesn't bring us closer to God, vegans might say you meat eaters don't know what you are missing and the Word might say that those restrictions are there to save your soul.
So what do we got ? armour, the whole armour and knowledge, the emphasis in scripture is that we tool up gear up and know our enemies ways, whether it be a streak of malice that pervades the day or a harry potter book on the shelf, know your enemies ways.
as I said before I've trusted God with my life and he came through, my physical strength or abilities count for very little, so I trust God more than I trust my own abilities however does that mean I should not take care to preserve that which I have ? here is a fairly balanced article I came across that sums it up well, as you pointed out it is easy to become overly zealous. http://biblereasons.com/bodybuilding/
must dash more stuff to do, must balance the unbalanceable
Is a self defence couse acceptable for christian women?
Posted : 15 Jan, 2023 07:38 AM
I believe that in times of online dating, it is highly recommended for women to do a self-defense course, also and especially with "dirty tricks". When she meets the man for the first time, he may have evil in mind. And even in marriage, the woman should never allow herself to be physically oppressed or intimidated.
