This is a field of study that I have devoted much of my life to. After reading all the posts I realize that you guys need to study up on the subject more. I'm not putting you down, just saying that there is much more to the picture than what is being presented.
First of all, if you read Genesis correctly, and keep it in context with the rest of the scriptures, you will find that there really is no problem with a literal six day creation. I can't get into details simply because there are just too many to post, but if you study, you will find that the creation of Adam was at a seperate time than Genesis 1:1. Genesis 1:1 is simply declaring that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." The next sentence goes on to say that the earth was "formless and void". In another part of the Bible it says that He did not create the earth formless and void. Is this a contradiction? No, not at all. A correct interpretation of Genesis 1:2 is that it "became" formless and void. In Jeremiah we read of a global flood in which God destroyed all things. It mentions that there was "no man" and that all the great cities of the earth were destroyed by His fierce anger. Some would attribute this to the flood of Noah, but it doesn't fit. First of all, Noah and his family was spared. Secondly, in the account of Noah's flood, it reads that God was grieved in His heart. In Jeremiah, it speaks of fierce anger. At the time of Noah there were the beginnings of great cities, but in Jeremiah, it speaks of all the great cities being destroyed.
As far as evolution is concerned, it is so utterly rediculous, that I can barely even debate it anymore. It is scientifically impossible for evolution to happen. Variation can happen, no doubt, but that's because the existing information is already in the genome. It has never been proven, nor will it ever be, that "new" information is added to the genome to be able to create new organs, limbs or other new structures to any living creature. It doesn't nor can it happen. While we're on that note, where did information come from to begin with? It is non-tangible. It has no mass, weight and it is neither matter or energy. It is an arrangement of matter or energy into a comprehensible format. Information is perhaps the biggest blow to evolution that there is, because information implies intelligence. I could sit here and write for the next two weeks and still not run out of evidences. It is our duty as people of God to study ourselves. The information is out there. It is up to you to seek it out.
Is there nobody who thinks of the Bible as Literature? You all think it's a scientific paper on the creation?
You all argue with bible quotes contra scientific theories. I think one cannot take a topographical map and interpret it like a portrait. Or a technical user manual like a poem. It's different things.
I do not believe that the book of Genesis wants to tell anything about creation, but all about the creator.
Yes, God has the power to do all this, and yes, God is a oving God and supreme to all.
But whoever wrote Genesis was a human, a sinner, someone with mistakes. But he stil wrote a book about the creator which was passed on throu time. I believe, this happened with the bessing of God, because this book tells truth.
But I do not think that the books of the bible tell history as we understand it today. As well as Shakespear's Hamlet does neither tell you how to operate your DVD player, nor tells any monarch on how to rule his country.
Genesis tells of God, not of history. God created the world, there will never be a proof against this. But however wrong Darwin might be, I do not think He made it the way some authors thought He'd done it.
Prior to the flood humans lived over 900 years old. Directly after the flood the life spans of humans began to shorten. Therefore, something happened to the atmosphere to cause this. Philosophical ideas suggest that there was once a canopy of water in the atmosphere that protected life from the harmful rays of the sun. This canopy of water collapsed and the earth was no longer protected from the suns harmful rays. This is where all the flood waters came from.
Prior to the flood the earth was a paradise. In Genesis 2:5 it says it did not rain on the earth in those days. Heat from the sun would have been distributed evenly throughout the planet by the canopy of water. 72 degrees from pole to pole. Dinosaurs roamed the earth in those days and Noah probably had dinosaurs aboard the ark. However, the dinosaurs could not survive in a post-flood world.
Modern dating methods assume that the suns rays have been constant throughout the eons. However, if these pre-flood conditions are true, then any dating method is unreliable when dating evidance that is pre-flood. The suns rays have not been constant.
Any evidance that directly contradicts the evolutionists is warehoused and never reaches the universities. The evidance of creation is throughout the world and one needs to look at it under a different light.
There is so much more to this. Raising of the ocean waters, impact craters on the moon, migration of species, emergance of the races within the human species, samples from the ocean floor and the Greenland icesheet, the Grand Canyon, extinction of species, the buildings at Karnak, Malta and the Sphinx. The book of Revelation also is easier to comprehend when one understands how the earth began.
"I do not believe that the book of Genesis wants to tell anything about creation, but all about the creator."
Well, ya better go back and read this verse again then:
Genesis 1:1 - "In the beginning God created . . ."
God (Jesus) said He is the beginning and the end. That includes history! Of course God wants us to know the history and application of when, why and in some cases how He made the entire universe. If Genesis wasn't telling anything about creation, well, coulda fooled me... considering Genesis went day-by-day explaining what God made, and on which day. Genesis is the very 'beginning' in written record.
Creationist, man I have to give you props. I agree with everything you say 100%. You the man!!! You have studied the word and have shown yourself a work man of righteousness rightly dividing the Word of Truth.:peace: God bless you my brother.
And to my girls Deborahe and April_Swan^, you ladies are on point. Even though you are not here to see this (inactive on CDFF) I give you two props.
You all continue to fight the good fight. :boxing: I hope that you all never grow weary of doing good works because a reward awaits those who endure to the end.:laugh::angel:
Creationists and evolutionists all have the same evidence�the same facts. Think about it: we all have the same earth, the same fossil layers, the same animals, and plants, the same stars�the facts are all the same. The difference is in the way we all interpret the facts. And why do we interpret facts differently? Because we start with different presuppositions. These are things that are assumed to be true, without being able to prove them. These then become the basis for other conclusions. All reasoning is based on presuppositions. This becomes especially relevant when dealing with past events. We all exist in the present�and the facts all exist in the present. When one is trying to understand how the evidence came about (Where did the animals come from? How did the fossil layers form? etc.), what we are actually trying to do is to connect the past to the present. However, if we weren�t there in the past to observe events, how can we know what happened so we can explain the present? It would be great to have a time machine so we could know for sure about past events. These two people are arguing about the same evidence, but they are looking at the evidence through different glasses and a Christian cannot divorce the spiritual nature of the battle from the battle itself.
The book of Genesis teaches that death is the result of Adam�s sin (Genesis 3:19; Romans 5:12, 8:18�22) and that all of God�s creation was �very good� upon its completion (Genesis 1:31). All animals and humans were originally vegetarian (Genesis 1:29�30). But if we compromise on the history of Genesis by adding millions of years, we must believe that death and disease were part of the world before Adam sinned. You see, the (alleged) millions of years of earth history in the fossil record shows evidence of animals eating each other,8 diseases like cancer in their bones,9 violence, plants with thorns,10 and so on. All of this supposedly takes place before man appears on the scene, and thus before sin (and its curse of death, disease, thorns, carnivory, etc.) entered the world.
As Christians, we must be extremely careful with the door of compromise. Now it is true that rejection of six literal days doesn�t ultimately affect one�s salvation, if one is truly born again. However, we need to stand back and look at the big picture. If the door of compromise is unlocked, once Christians concede that we shouldn�t interpret the Bible as written in Genesis, why should the world take heed of God�s Word in any area? If the church has told the world that one can use man�s interpretation of the world, such as billions of years, to reinterpret the Bible, this Book is seen as an outdated, scientifically incorrect holy book not intended to be believed as written. Additionally, as each subsequent generation has pushed this door of compromise open farther and farther, they are increasingly not accepting the morality or salvation of the Bible either. After all, if the history in Genesis is not correct, how can one be sure the rest is correct? Jesus said, �If I have told you earthly things, and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you of heavenly things?� (John 3:12).
The battle is not one of young earth vs. old earth, or billions of years vs. six days, or creation vs. evolution�the real battle is the authority of the Word of God vs. man�s fallible opinions. Why do Christians believe in the bodily Resurrection of Jesus Christ? Because of the words of Scripture, �according to the Scriptures.� Moreover, why should Christians believe in the six literal days of creation? Because of the words of Scripture, �In six days the Lord made ...�. The real issue is one of authority�is God�s Word the authority, or is man�s word the authority? So, couldn�t God have used evolution to create? The answer is No. A belief in millions of years of evolution not only contradicts the clear teaching of Genesis and the rest of Scripture but also impugns the character of God. He told us in the book of Genesis that He created the whole universe and everything in it in six days by His word: �Then God said ... .� His Word is the evidence of how and when God created, and His Word is incredibly clear.
I think a good place to start with this question is the beginning...let's say life started on this planet from a single celled organism. The main problem is the planet is here with all its elements, and they are inorganic. THEN, Pow! we have organic material. Where did this organic material come from? What is the medium of transformation from mud to the 250 proteins required to make the simplest forms of life? Where did all this genetic material/information come from??? It is essentially information and the complexity of it, is staggering. If you have more questions, and you want to hear from a qualified scientist, and not some random talkinghead on the internet.
Check out Ben Stein's documentary: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed"...I have never heard this debate outlined in such clear terms, with such poignant and articulate answers. Honesty on both sides will reveal the truth. Scientists should let the data and facts speak for themselves, and the facts of molecular biology are screaming that an intelligence far beyond our own has set life on this planet in motion.
Mmmm....interpretations: An explanation or conceptualization by a critic of a work of literature, painting, music, or other art form; an exegesis.
One person says, God created the world in six days, meaning a 24 hour rotation of the planet, allowing the earth to be only 6000 years old.
Another quotes Peter and says "a day is as 1000 years and 1000 years as a day." When we bring our understanding to the words in the Bible. We come from a perspective rooted in time and space. God is in no way shape or form rooted in time and space. Jesus said, "God is Spirit, and they that worship Him, must worship Him in spirit and in truth." Even when Jesus walked this planet He spoke of speaking with Abraham in one breath, and the next He spoke of the end of time. Each event described in a first person point of view with no recognition of that event's place in a specific time. Why doesn't inform his disciples when he is speaking of the past, the future or event that took place in the heavenly realms? He wants to push their understanding of who they are sinful humans to what He is calling them to be. Which is, broken, sinful people, who serve a God with no limitations of time, space, physical or spiritual boundaries. i.e., "Where were you when the sons of God shouted for glory?" God questions Job...and where was I? and where were you? Is this event before the creation of the physical universe, during it???...
So now, we look at Genesis, and some Christians say there is only one way to interpret the events there...I would say there are many ways to interpret those events and many meanings in them, and further more; deep and profound mysteries that we have not yet begun to scratch the surface of.
For example, Genesis 1:2 "The earth was without form and void," If there is no earth to rotate as of yet, how is a 24 hour period notated? Does God really care at this point in history if it takes him 24 hours or 2 millions years to roll this beautiful blue planet into shape? Why does an extended definition of a day shake so many Christians faith/confidence in the Bible? If the definition of the word DAY is so vitally important in this topic, then how is it defined in Hebrew? The problem with the english language is that there is no room for nuance of meaning (I love pizza, I love my family, you get the idea). However, in Hebrew Day=Yom can be defined to mean afternoon, age, all the years, always, completely, course of time, days, forever, forevermore, full year, future, life, lifetime, perpetually, years, yesterday, period.
Now, these definitions apply depending on the context. And the context in the beginning of Genesis is of vital importance.
"So, God called the light Day=Yom and the Darkness he called Night(look up the Hebrew on Night if you are so inclined). So the evening and the morning were the first day=yom."(Again, yom but clearly a different meaning from the first use). Genesis 1:5
Many would say, "Oh that's simple the sun rises and sets, and that's the first day=24 hour period. Next verse, this stuff is boring." I don't think that is what is being said in verse 5. God is painting a clear picture of His hand moving not just in the formation of our world, but this universe. In the Big Bang, the essential forces of the universe were present and released. Gravity, Light, Radiation, Weak and Strong Nuclear Forces, I can't remember them all...watch the Discovery Channel for the rest:bunny:. And this light was placed by His hand throughout the universe, including our Sun. One star among trillions in a galaxy among billions. "God called the Light Day," What does Day=Yom mean here? Honestly, Im not sure, but I am positive it does not mean a 24 hour period. verse 4,"God divided the light from the darkness," There is so much here, this is a picture of God moving his Hand through the universe via his son, Jesus (see John 1), and creating the beauty we see through the Hubble telescope. verse 5 "So the evening and the morning were the first day=yom: lifetime, length, all the years, age, battle, forever, forevermore, first, yesterday, future, everyday, fate, eternity!!!"
The problem is not with astronomy, anthropolgy, archaeology and the Bible being in conflict. They are not! The problem is we as Christians have decided we completely understand God and His word. Some guys read the first part of Genesis many years ago (by some guys I mean Christians in the late 19th and early 20th century) and said this is what it means. This was an attempt to merge the Bible with the new developments in the sciences of astronomy and archaeology. The problem here is English, French, and German are NOT Hebrew. If you say the Bible is the final and ultimate authority on life, the laws of nature, the laws of the universe and the laws of the spiritual world beyond this life, THEN let the BIBLE and the GOD who wrote it be that authority, and not some fallable, sinful man (which we ALL are).
Get in the Bible, when you read it. Put down the commentaries, forget what Pastor Such and Such, and Bishop whathisname said, and work it out for yourself.
Sympathize with the people in the Bible, ask what is was like to be in their shoes, walk where they walked, saw what they saw and do what they did. All the joy and beauty you could ever want is in those pages...in the very spaces between the words of that Book you can find God.
If you doubt me, ask your Pastor or whoever you think is a spiritual big shot, what verse Genesis verse 1:2 means, "And the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters."
If the answer they give you, doesn't make your jaw hit the floor, and everything inside you says, "Yes, this is truth, without a doubt," then take the same question to God. Pray about it, think about it, get quiet and ask God to speak to you about it. I guarantee what God will show you, and only you, through His word will carry you for a lifetime, a day, a forevermore, an age, a yesterday, a future, an eternity, a fate, a hope, your beginning and your end with Him.
ISAIAH 41:10,13
10. Fear thou not; for I AM with thee: be not dismayed; for I AM thy GOD: I will strengthen thee; Yea, I will help thee; Yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness. 13. For I the LORD thy GOD will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, fear NOT, I WILL HELP YOU!!!
