The position of no divorce and its many variants all ignore select passages that fly into the face of their doctrines, worshiping the letter of the law instead of the scriptural context and cultural/contextual understanding of the day in which it was written.
To permit divorce forces a number of things to be dealt with that some cannot accept, such as Church Discipline, getting involved, leaving ones comfort zone, dealing with personal sins, shortcomings, and responsibilities. Ministering to the fatherless and the Widow ( Surely a single parent and children qualifies in the spirit of this law) Generally it will not permit the church to be lazy and lukewarm in its responses.
It also forces us to wrestle with one fact that is inescapable regardless of your theology.
GOD DOES NOT HOLD ONE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE FREE MORAL CHOICE of OTHERS TO SIN; I.E. BREAK THEIR MARRIAGE CONTRACT.
God gave us minds and wills!!! To attempt to hold one accountable for the other is to say that I have control over your mind and will and can make you do, etc, etc, etc.
A �No Divorce� position does just this and Ignores many scriptures such as these
Ezra 10 Priests ordered to divorce wives
Jer 3 God Divorces Israel
Mat 1 Joseph being a Just Man,,, was minded to put Mary away privately
Jer 3 Putting away of wife
1 Cor 7;27,28 loosed, from a wife, no sin to marry
The simplest definition of marriage in the bible (EX.21:10) The Duty of marriage to provide Food, Clothing, Love in marriage is correct. God does the same for us, Likewise we are responsible also to do the same.
No divorce escapes this responsibility by their position.
Adultery, Fornication and Hardness of heart are keys to understanding.
What is hardness of heart? It is not divorce. That is my point here. Were the Jews (EZRA10:3) divorcing pagan wives because of hardness of heart? God did not divorce Israel because HE is hard hearted. Jesus gave Fornication as a reason for divorce. Fornication includes adultery. Spiritual adultery is mentioned twice as much in the Bible as physical adultery.
Looking is both physical and spiritual adultery. Pornea (fornication) has been defined as images of harlotry. And the case can be made that Porn addicts can be divorced for adultery as well.
But according to the OT Law, women could not divorce husbands. they were like the husbands property. In the beginning it was not so. In fact, in the beginning mankind was sinless until the fall. Marriage today is not made in Paradise today. And Jesus answers were not meant to be THE new commandment on marriage. :waving:
Adultery, Fornication and Hardness of heart are keys to understanding.
What is hardness of heart? It is not divorce. That is my point here. Were the Jews (EZRA10:3) divorcing pagan wives because of hardness of heart? God did not divorce Israel because HE is hard hearted. Jesus gave Fornication as a reason for divorce. Fornication includes adultery. Spiritual adultery is mentioned twice as much in the Bible as physical adultery.
Looking is both physical and spiritual adultery. Pornea (fornication) has been defined as images of harlotry. And the case can be made that Porn addicts can be divorced for adultery as well.
But according to the OT Law, women could not divorce husbands. they were like the husbands property. In the beginning it was not so. In fact, in the beginning mankind was sinless until the fall. Marriage today is not made in Paradise today. And Jesus answers were not meant to be THE new commandment on marriage. :waving:
That is corrct. but the issue is the definition of divorce verses "Put Away." Put away is not the same thimng as divorce as we know it today. Only a written certificate made remarriage, Deut 24:1-4.
Jesus never said a legal divorce was adulterous.:yay:
My translation of that verse is "he who hates and puts away, says the Lord, covers his mind with violence as with a garment."
The implication is that like God, it is possible to divorce without hatred. Joseph also sought to put away Mary quietly rather than have her stoned to death. The Deut. 24:1-5 account also shows mercy towards a divorced woman.
THIS QUOTE shows the confusion over the doctrine of divorce and remarriage...
"A victim of divorce is perhaps the best way to depict a person whose spouse has left them. Jesus says that a person who divorces causes their spouse to become an adulterer. A person is not an adulterer by virtue of becoming divorced. It would appear that Jesus is making the assumption that most divorced people will get remarried. To get remarried would cause the divorcee to become an adulterer. However, from Jesus' statement it appears as if the guilt of adultery rests upon the one who initiated the divorce because he or she has caused their spouse to become this. That being said, a divorced person is responsible for their own actions and even though they are a victim of divorce, they are not forced to get remarried."
A bit of common sense is really needed here. Take for instance a spouce who divorces or gets divorced because they are sexually unfaithful. It only makes sense they should marry again because of their weakness in that area. Condeming a divorced man or woman, with strong sexual desires, to remain unmarried for life contradicts all common sense. It is a streach to claim Jesus taught this based by asumptions of what HE must of meant.
Anyone can assume what Jesus must have meant. If a divorced person does stay unmarried does that mean they have not sinned? :dunce:
Ok guys...I want to know what parts of the Proverbs 31:10 woman jump out for you and why.
Posted : 26 Oct, 2010 02:17 PM
Proverbs 31:23,
" 23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land."
The Proverbs 31 woman, as described the mothern of King Lemuel, says she does many good things while he hangs out with the guys at the gates of the city. And it brings him respect. :waving:
BTW, I had to really seach to come up with this verse showing women can be addicted to porn also. She may have been forced into prostitution. Whatever, it starts in the mind. And we (men & women) are drawn away bu our own lusts and tempted.
Ezekiel 13:19-21...
"19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed..."
Good post, more is needed to teach what Godly masculinity is all about.
And sometimes Women follow men, too.
Some women will even let their husbands be the leader :ROFL:
That is acceptable. But men should not follow women.
Adam followed Eve in the Garden. Masculine men do not fall for the "women rule men drool," world system today? Or do they.
It's as easy as 1,2,3,
Psalm 1331 "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brethren to dwell together in unity!"
First...the Men are united in the things of God.
"2 It is like the precious oil upon the head,
Running down on the beard,
The beard of Aaron,
Running down on the edge of his garments."
second.....Oil is a type of anointing (The Holy Spirit & the oil of joy) needed for priests who's function is to bring others to God.
"3 It is like the dew of Hermon,
Descending upon the mountains of Zion;
For there the LORD commanded the blessing�
Life forevermore."
Three...Dew symbolises God's mercy which is new every morning, and needed for our own individual relationship to God. Together they point to the cross. two lines, one vertical and our private relationship and one horizontal our relationship with others. We are called to make disciples, and bring others to God. To do so we need the verticalle personal relationship, which brings us Joy and the HS.
Pixy is gone? Rather than be all negative, I would speculate she got a "Word" from this. Maybe God answered her question and she is moving in the right direction i.e. "(draw near to God and HE draws near to you)."
There is a pattern to the direction of the flow in this conversation. I find it a bit humorous that I seemed to have started a conversation that women are not tempted by porn or women do not use porn. I never said that. If I may clarify what I meant:
My comments, and this being the ask a guy forum, is my experience as a guy. The women I know of, who use a type of porn (romance novels) do not rise to the level of Addiction that men do. But that is based on my liefs experience. I'm a senior now, and it may be that women have now evolved enough to be just like men. So we should treat them the same. Of course I could be wrong.
The sin of covetousness, or wanting what you cannot righteously have, is a form of idolatry. If this is what men do watching porn it becomes an idol and Spiritual idolatry.
There is a verse deciding women given into sexual idolatry. And I suppose you can equate it to porn. But it is speaking of a harlot in youth that who stills lusts for these (african) men with oversizes genitals. Ezekiel 23:20. she started as a youth and it keeps a hold on her.
Back to the issue of why men look at pornography. I'd refer you to Revelations and The great harlot (city) riding a scarlet beast. It says her cup of abominations and fornications (Pornea) make men intoxicated. Men are very susceptible to being drunk on fornication. This is in direct contrast to the Heavenly Jerusalem we seek. It is a matter of what kingdom you are in.
BTW, fighting among yourselves might be intoxicating too. I don't know. But like Porn, self control is a key factor. can you help but try and correct each others thinking? :rolleyes:
