How about a section where people can learn how to read, study and translate the Scripture.
Posted : 8 Mar, 2020 08:15 PM
Matthew 28 verses 18 - 20
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Too many people when they meet together are being entertained by a so called worship band, with a self proclaimed person called pastor telling jokes and giving history lessons.
Messiah says to make LEARNERS (disciples ) of me.
Baptizing( immersing -verb, present tense ) INTO the name of the Father, and the SON and the Holy Spirit.
Had the christians been taught just the basics for understanding the Word,maybe they would not be taken advantage of and abused by the self proclaimed pastors.
How about a section where people can learn how to read, study and translate the Scripture.
Posted : 25 Apr, 2020 12:52 PM
Computer is up and running, had taken a few days to figure what was wrong.
@ Millenial
Matthew 14 verses 22 - 33
22 Immediately He made the disciples get into the boat and go ahead of Him to the other side, while He sent the crowds away.
23 After He had sent the crowds away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray; and when it was evening, He was there alone.
24 But the boat was already a long distance from the land, battered by the waves; for the wind was contrary.
25 And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea.
26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, "It is a ghost!" And they cried out in fear.
27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, "Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid."
28 Peter said to Him, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water."
29 And He said, "Come!" And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
30 But seeing the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, "Lord, save me!" 31 Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and said to him, "You of little faith, why did you doubt?"
32 When they got into the boat, the wind stopped.
33 And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!"
In verse 26 Messiah is walking upon the water; the Disciples see Him thinking that He is a ghost or some spirit.
Upon seeing Messiah they become afraid as they do not recognize Him.
Messiah says to His disciples I AM ( caps added as there are no capitol letters or punctuation in Biblical Greek ), upon hearing this Peter says " LORD, if it is you command me to come to you on the water.
What is implied in the language is Peter implying, if it is you the I AM, tell me to come to you on the water.
Implied language is not taught much today.
Peter walks towards Messiah, but when he sees the waves he begins to DOUBT that Messiah is I Am, as later Messiah says to Peter, YOU of little faith, why did you doubt.
How about a section where people can learn how to read, study and translate the Scripture.
Posted : 26 Apr, 2020 09:29 AM
It would have been nice to see more information about the resources you used and more detail about your thought processes and how you came to your conclusions, but yes, this is an interpretation I’ve heard about, and yes, your point is well taken that it is a possible translation that is rarely addressed. I’ve only heard one other teacher, and the pastors who learned it from him talk about the interchangeability of “it is I” verses “I AM,” the latter having implications reaching all the way back to Moses and the Burning Bush. The teacher I refer to also relates this scripture to the feeding of the 5000 (men) with a boy’s sack lunch and the healing and casting out of demons, in which Jesus would start the process of the miracle (or sign if you prefer) and then send the 12 to continue the process and do the same. Peter asking to join Jesus on the water becomes a continuation of this pattern. The farther-reaching implication is that the Church (as a whole) can and should continue to teach what Jesus taught us and that God can then continue to work many wonders and miracles through us as His followers. The teacher I spoke of does a good job of going beyond mere technicalities and applies scripture to how our lives can be transformed by not just reading the book ABOUT the Creator, but by forging a relationship with the Creator, Himself.
However, I’m not sure it’s appropriate to call the “It is I” a mistranslation or even a ‘bad’ translation. As you already said, it’s interchangeable with the phrase for “I AM.” The fact that the “I AM” road is the one less traveled doesn’t necessarily mean it MUST be the right one. You, like all the previous translators that came before you simply had to plant your flag on either one hill or the other. The one you’ve chosen certainly carries some more compelling implications, and as such, is the one I would more likely choose myself if I had to. Nuances like this often enrich the text, but it wouldn’t necessarily justify flat out rejecting the translations that those who are not linguists themselves rely on.
I don’t think the other translators who translated “It is I” were slouches, lazy, misguided, or evil. It’s extremely difficult to translate an ancient text to a modern language, and there are bound to be minor problems that crop up, otherwise there wouldn’t be so many possible translations to choose from when we go into a Christian bookstore. No one who has attempted to translate this text to English was there in the boat or on the shore to catch exactly what Jesus meant in that moment. For example, we don’t even know for sure whether Jesus was smiling or scowling when he said his famous line “You of little faith, why did you doubt?” Now that’s a detail that could change the entire context of the line, not to mention change our image of Jesus! The good news is, we can figure a lot of that out with looking at some context clues.
The beauty of it is, we can all live with a lot of these little awkward spots in the translations because much of the essence of their meaning remains intact for people to learn from regardless of what translation they’re using. We know Jesus was walking on the water. We know that Peter had at least enough faith and courage to begin to walk on the water and he made it all the way to where Jesus was standing, so that when he did falter he was so close to Jesus that all Jesus had to do was reach out and grab him. I don’t think this possible imperfection would harm anyone’s faith, but what CAN harm another’s faith is seeing all the infighting and trading of petty barbs that take place over these technicalities.
Honestly, which do you think does greater harm to a fairly new believer who reads through a forum like this: Learning that “It is I” could have just as easily been translated as “I AM,” or watching two people calling each other every horrible name under the sun over which translation everyone should be using?
How about a section where people can learn how to read, study and translate the Scripture.
Posted : 26 Apr, 2020 03:39 PM
Millenial,
I do not agree with your understanding, as It is i cannot be translated as I Am.
Let us see what GOD Almighty says about Himself in the Word.
Exodus 3 verses 13 - 15
13 Then Moses said to God, “Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you.’ Now they may say to me, ‘What is His name?’ What shall I say to them?” 14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
15 God, furthermore, said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.
It is i, does nothing to tell me about who GOD Almighty is or what He is like.
Yet, I Am tells me what i need to know about GOD Almighty and more.
If i were to say to a Rabbi, that Messiah says It is i do not be afraid, he might say, ok no big deal.
Now tell the same rabbi that Messiah says I AM says to not fear, then we have a problem, as the Rabbi knows that I AM is the name of YHWH.
By saying to Peter and the others egó eimi ( I AM )
He takes the revealed name of YHWH for Himself, thus declaring that He is also GOD Almighty.
The one translation denies who GOD Almighty is, the other does not.
How about a section where people can learn how to read, study and translate the Scripture.
Posted : 26 Apr, 2020 06:51 PM
Okay, let’s recap. You started off this silly game with a challenge: You said, “What if i told you that the scripture i posted has been mistranslated, and not one publisher has corrected the error.” To which I said you should share it ALONG WITH your resources and the thought processes that lead you to your conclusions. I had hoped that you’d provide something earthshaking that might be a great revelation about how our lives are changed by the scriptures. You didn’t. You also did not provide your sources and very little of your thought processes, but you quoted “27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, "Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid." 28 Peter said to Him, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water."”
You then say “Messiah says to His disciples I AM ( caps added as there are no capitol letters or punctuation in Biblical Greek ), upon hearing this Peter says " LORD, if it is you command me to come to you on the water.”
This strongly suggests you are substituting the words “I AM” for the words “It is I,” which has been described as a legitimate possible translation.
You then go on to say, “What is implied in the language is Peter implying, if it is you the I AM, tell me to come to you on the water.”
So now what is IMPLIED is the real text and what is written is not? An implication is not a mistranslation, and you still have not provided your source material, so we still don’t know if you’re a scholar or if you’re just trolling and trying to sew confusion. This is what I warned you about in the first place. Why should I rate your disagreement with my statement any higher than my opinion? Why should anyone care what you think?
You now say “It is I” is not translatable as “I AM,” but that’s not even the point. You are quibbling over minutia here, and you missed the ultimate point of my previous post: How those words are translated does NOT make a bit of difference to the signs and the intention of the rest of the story. Jesus is letting the disciples know that He is not a ghost and they need not be afraid, regardless of how it’s translated. Furthermore, if Peter is implying Jesus’ divinity, then why doesn’t he say to him “If you are GOD, then…?” The “I AM” implication would affirm Jesus’ divinity, but it’s not necessary in order for us to know he is divine because it’s indicated elsewhere. Furthermore, the the fact that the other translation or implication doesn’t actively affirm Jesus' divinity doesn't deny his divinity either. Again, how this is translated doesn’t change the ultimate point of the story, which seems to have gotten lost in your analysis. That’s the danger of trying to go this deep in the re-re-retranslation of the Bible word by word. It’s now just a head game, and worse yet, we risk turning Biblical learning into an idol because the focus is on the words, not the Author. I’m not here to quibble over minutia. Jesus is still Messiah, no matter how Matthew 14 is translated. If we can agree on that, the rest of this discussion is irrelevant and nothing more needs to be said.
How about a section where people can learn how to read, study and translate the Scripture.
Posted : 27 Apr, 2020 05:24 AM
I don't worry about whether Jesus is divinity, deity, God made man, Word made flesh, Teacher made Friend or anything in between. He is Messiah and He was God enough to live a sinless life and identify himself as God the Son and human enough to pay the price for our sins and that's sufficient for me. Part of the truth that I accept of the spiritual mathmatics of 1+1+1=1 and the nature of how Jesus can be human and yet be God is that I will never be able to figure out exactly who and what He is or how He accomplishes this. God will always exceed our expectations and defy whatever box we try to put him in, so sometimes He will demonstrate with every word that He is God. Sometimes He will just be there as our Friend.
Wisdom in this comes from accepting that although He might let you get close enough you can almost taste it, He won't quite let you totally figure Him out. He reveals Himself to us knowing we won't quite get it. So, you have no choice but to just let Him be God. He won't let you figure Him out completely, because in that moment when you do figure Him out He stops being God for you and he just becones a curiosity; a puzzle you've solved. He wants to be God and for us to be His children, not quite knowing who He is, but knowing enough to trust Him, love Him, and to know it's Him when we see Him at work in our lives.
Let Him Be whoever He is in the moment, whether He is I Am, I Am Becoming, or just, It's Me: not a ghost, but someone you know; someone you can trust not to lead you astray; not to let you falter; not to let you fall. Let God be God in the way you need in every moment of your life, Quiznos. And let Him be God in the way others need Him to be for them too. Do you want the words, or do you want God Himself? I can't be sure, but it's looking to me like you may be at a point where you have to choose between them. I can't help you choose, but I can tell you tell you that for me, it's a much happier journey with Him when I let Him be God and stop worrying about such little details as how He's identifying Himself in every little verse. Be well and be blessed.
