Hey Ice, I understand what you are saying cuz as a woman, I used to feel that way too, until I came to understand exactly what those verses meant. It is actually explained very well in something called "The Truth Project" if you ever get an opportunity to take that video seminar. The creators of the Truth Project have a new program coming out in the next few months called "Cross Connection" I can't wait, I think it will be fascinating.
But back to the point of submission to authority, for that is really what its all about. We all have authority that we need to submit unto: work, the law, the Word. When the Lord says that wives are to submit unto their husbands, this is not unlike the Holy Spirit submits authority unto the Lord Jesus Christ, who in turn submits authority unto the Father Almighty. They are one triune Godhead, three in one. Just as when families are created, children submit to their parent, wives submit to their husbands in the same triune fashion. When a marriage occurs, two become one, just as when God created Jesus and then sent the Holy Spirit, He became three in one.
We are told to submit unto our husbands, but men are also told to LOVE their wives as Christ Loves the Church. If a man truly loves his wife in this way, he would always consult her wise counsel as a help mate and would not do something that would hurt her for he is to love her more than he loves himself. If a woman loves and honors her husband, submitting to his authority for the good of the family should not be a difficult thing.
In many ways I think men bare far more responsibility in this than the women, for men are to make wise decisions for the good of their families, and if they are making foolish or selfish decisions, they will be held accountable for not only the decision, but the impact it has on the family as well.
It is not meant to be a chore. It is meant to work together the way our body works together. Can you imagine if the right hand and the left hand were at war with one another? and what of the legs and feet? What if none of them submitted unto the authority of the brain? Such issues would be considered "handicapped or special needs" for perfect coordination is like a symphony, and lack of it is like a train wreck.
Sometimes I think the hardest thing to accomplish anymore is the trust it takes to fulfill these roles, for most of us have not found this type of thing in past relationships.
I know its not a perfect world, but to my understanding, that is the way it is designed to work, which is a lot less scary than someone screaming "YOU WILL OBEY ME!!!"
Look for Cross Connection though Ice, I think you will enjoy it.
This was already posted under Christian Moral Standards and I will re-post the answer I put there for it applies, although I really dislike addressing the same threads over and over. I am not really sure why people do this. It does not seem like a positive direction, but here is the answer from my previous reply:
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GAY MARRIAGE/GOD'S KINGDOM
Posted : 19 Dec, 2009 09:25 PM
Will,
None of us are the way God intended us to be, for we have all been twisted not only under original sin, but under the constant barrage of thoughts that come at us from the demonic who take pleasure in our failure and under our falls.
I think we all have that dialog running in our heads that is what the devil tells us we are, and all of the ideals of that dialog unravel our relationship with the Lord.
If you are raised with a parent that often says, "Don't be stupid, why are you so dumb?" We all know what kind of damage that can do to a child, but is the child stupid? No, although the jury might still be out on the parent.
Most of us do not believe we are who God says we are, precious and beautiful and made in His Image. If we actually believed we were Holy as He says, would we not treat ourselves better and with more respect? Would we not flee from sin?
God tells us sex outside of marriage is a sin. That doesn't mean some sex outside of marriage, that means all sex outside of marriage. We should flee from this.
God also defines marriage as being an anointed sacrament between a man and a woman, not a sacrament between two people that love each other.
So give this a little thought for a moment. If we are to flee from immorality, then how does a Christian get to a point of "gay marriage"?
I would say there would have to be a considerable amount of entertaining of immoral thought, and perhaps entertaining of thought of immoral action before it would get to that point.
Do we not all know that the more we entertain impure thoughts, the stronger they become? If we entertain forbidden sexual thoughts, it is only a matter of time before we act on those thought whether they are with someone of the same gender, a child, an animal, another person who is married, or even just someone we would like to have more attention from. Which is more wrong? Read my thread on "Which is more wrong.." and you will clearly see, not one is more right than another for all are an abomination in the eyes of our Lord God Almighty, who gave us these rules to protect us.
Today we say it is alright to be a practicing homosexual, what of tomorrow? Tomorrow a child molester says, its not my fault I was born this way, God gave me this so I should be able to marry a child. Living together has already become so common place and accepted that I think many people today do not even recognize it as a sin.
But the mere entertainment of these sins in our mind is sin, and we are told to flee from it. People who commit suicide generally entertain the thought of it many, many times before they actually take action against themselves, believing they are who the devil says they are, not who God says they are.
So why do the sexually immoral continue to entertain their thoughts, and then claim it was given to them to be this way by God. Can they not see it was given to them, by someone alright, but it was not God, and the more they entertained it, the stronger it got? If we are not attracted to the opposite gender, would it not be better to accept the teachings of Paul and remain single, not to live an immoral life that draws us deeper into sin?
Wouldn't we all like to embrace immorality and then believe that was some sort of misprint in the Bible and that God actually condones it?
I find that we either want to believe God, or we don't, and if we don't then I am baffled to wonder why a person would want to spend an eternity serving a God they do not want to follow.
So maybe the real question is do we want His way or our own way? If we want His way, it takes sacrificing the desires of our flesh that fall to temptation. We are all given our crosses to bare. It is not about excuses or opinion polls or if we can get someone else to see our point, that it is in anyway less wrong.
You either believe God, or you don't. If we could actually see His Holy Spirit within us, would we continue to defile ourselves or others if we could see His Holy Spirit within them.
Maybe the question is, can you hate that sin and still love the sinner and recognize that he has something to teach you about yourself?
Will I am not certain that the "Say Something Nice About Someone" thread is an appropriate place to air dirty laundry or hurt feelings. I actually think if I felt this way about someone on the forum, that it would be more appropriate to sent them an email and let them know that my feelings were hurt if that be the case.
I can understand why people might be getting a distinct impression of you from your posts, Will, think about it. You have asked everyone on the forum how they handle lust, you asked how they would feel about a pastor having an extramarital affair and most recently you have opened the topic of homosexual marriage and faith. You have to admit, for the short time you have been posting, you have posted a lot of sexually charged topics. This might be why you are not being received as well as you would like. Just a thought. In that sense Ole Cattle may have a point. Not everyone is comfortable to discuss such topics, and the ones that are uncomfortable with it, most likely are not going to tell you. I think that was his point more than anything.
What you just posted above is blatantly hostile Will. Is that really the kind of person you want other to see you as on this site? Do not forget that when you attack someone in this manner that there is a good chance there are others on the site that appreciate them more than you do perhaps, which will not make such words well received.
Take a step back my Brother and breath this thing out a bit. Could there be a point here that might be viewed as valid by others? If so, perhaps the other person is not so out of line and it is not as personal as you feel like it might be.
Today my Pastor said something that I think we should all think about and that is the biggest road block in our faith is our own self centered attitude of importance. I think under that category, we all need to step up from time to time.
None of us are the way God intended us to be, for we have all been twisted not only under original sin, but under the constant barrage of thoughts that come at us from the demonic who take pleasure in our failure and under our falls.
I think we all have that dialog running in our heads that is what the devil tells us we are, and all of the ideals of that dialog unravel our relationship with the Lord.
If you are raised with a parent that often says, "Don't be stupid, why are you so dumb?" We all know what kind of damage that can do to a child, but is the child stupid? No, although the jury might still be out on the parent.
Most of us do not believe we are who God says we are, precious and beautiful and made in His Image. If we actually believed we were Holy as He says, would we not treat ourselves better and with more respect? Would we not flee from sin?
God tells us sex outside of marriage is a sin. That doesn't mean some sex outside of marriage, that means all sex outside of marriage. We should flee from this.
God also defines marriage as being an anointed sacrament between a man and a woman, not a sacrament between two people that love each other.
So give this a little thought for a moment. If we are to flee from immorality, then how does a Christian get to a point of "gay marriage"?
I would say there would have to be a considerable amount of entertaining of immoral thought, and perhaps entertaining of thought of immoral action before it would get to that point.
Do we not all know that the more we entertain impure thoughts, the stronger they become? If we entertain forbidden sexual thoughts, it is only a matter of time before we act on those thought whether they are with someone of the same gender, a child, an animal, another person who is married, or even just someone we would like to have more attention from. Which is more wrong? Read my thread on "Which is more wrong.." and you will clearly see, not one is more right than another for all are an abomination in the eyes of our Lord God Almighty, who gave us these rules to protect us.
Today we say it is alright to be a practicing homosexual, what of tomorrow? Tomorrow a child molester says, its not my fault I was born this way, God gave me this so I should be able to marry a child. Living together has already become so common place and accepted that I think many people today do not even recognize it as a sin.
But the mere entertainment of these sins in our mind is sin, and we are told to flee from it. People who commit suicide generally entertain the thought of it many, many times before they actually take action against themselves, believing they are who the devil says they are, not who God says they are.
So why do the sexually immoral continue to entertain their thoughts, and then claim it was given to them to be this way by God. Can they not see it was given to them, by someone alright, but it was not God, and the more they entertained it, the stronger it got? If we are not attracted to the opposite gender, would it not be better to accept the teachings of Paul and remain single, not to live an immoral life that draws us deeper into sin?
Wouldn't we all like to embrace immorality and then believe that was some sort of misprint in the Bible and that God actually condones it?
I find that we either want to believe God, or we don't, and if we don't then I am baffled to wonder why a person would want to spend an eternity serving a God they do not want to follow.
So maybe the real question is do we want His way or our own way? If we want His way, it takes sacrificing the desires of our flesh that fall to temptation. We are all given our crosses to bare. It is not about excuses or opinion polls or if we can get someone else to see our point, that it is in anyway less wrong.
You either believe God, or you don't. If we could actually see His Holy Spirit within us, would we continue to defile ourselves or others if we could see His Holy Spirit within them.
Maybe the question is, can you hate that sin and still love the sinner and recognize that he has something to teach you about yourself?
Dennis, I hate to burst your bubble here, but you probably aren't going to find her under your tree, cuz I think I saw her standing under the Mistletoe! LOL
My Dear Friends, and Kimberly, I do include you among my Dear Friends as I write this.
As we weave our way through these threads on this topic, I have learned a great deal about myself along the way.
The first lesson was "wise counsel". I am currently going through things that are way bigger than I am, and I can see where the Lord has sent me Wise Counsel, and I need to have patience and wait upon Him and continue on in what I know I should be doing and Trust that He has all the details handled, and very soon I will be blessed to be some place better than I am right now.
The second thing I have been reminded of along the way is "Thy Will Be Done". Do I agree with Kimberly, obviously, I do not, but again it very much reminds me of someone else that went off on their own tangent to fulfill the desires that burned within them, ignoring all counsel put before them. They went through a fierce and intense fire that scarred them and changed them forever, but not in a bad way because they saw the error of their ways and it amplified their faith in a way nothing else ever could have.
That person is me. Or is that person you? How many of us had our days of foolishness where we felt no one understood us or could know what was best for us, and we walked straight into the world to burst into flame, and when we did, we discovered we were not alone. The Lord was with us.
Many of us worry about Kimberly because we feel that this is what she is doing, but here in comes the latest thing I have learned in all this. We could not see past ourselves because we needed to go head on into that fire to find our faith in Him. I believe Kimberly is blind to our words because maybe she DOES need to go through what the Lord knows she needs to go through to bring her faith to where He wants it to be.
She already has a faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is good for along the way, the road will be difficult and she will need it. She will also need our prayers, for maybe we would not have made it along the way if people we did not even know hadn't said, "Lord, I'm a little worried about that Child" It bothers me that no one else stands on that prayer for her "Thy Will Be Done Lord, Walk with Kimberly".
When the prodigal son left home, his father did not stand in his way, but rejoiced when he returned having learned much along the way.
Mary did not stop Jesus from going forth into the world knowing he would sacrificed . Maybe she didn't know, but I think she did. Mothers that are close to their children have a way of knowing when peril awaits them often times. I think she knew in her heart that the road before her son would be difficult and harsh. As parents, who would want that for your child?
Sometimes we have to go through that fire, battle demons, go to prison, suffer that we might be brought closer unto His Glory. Many among us will still go through many, many trials, harsh trials, trials that we did not foresee being the way they would be, but the Lord will be with us, and the Lord will be with Kimberly.
We have all made HUGE mistakes along the way, I certainly know I have. I have made horrendous mistakes. I am going to continue my prayer for Kimberly because I trust the Lord has this worked out, and the Lord does want what is best for Kimberly and if He has it under control, it is time we let this go and pray for her. We know that if the Lord grants her desire that it is going to be difficult. Do we also know that if the Lord does not grant her way, that it will also be difficult? She wants this child more than life itself, which we cannot understand maybe, but if the Lord's answer is no, it will hurt her.
We have in Faith given her the best of our "wise counsel" and she remains blind to what we see so clear, for the clarity of her focus is on this desire. I see heartbreak for any outcome here, please my brothers and sisters, the time for wise counsel has passed for all has been said and what more could anyone say, yet here she is, still with us, still asking things she knows we cannot condone. Why is she here? I think she is here because the Lord wants us all to stand in prayer for a beloved Sister that IS hurting. We cannot make that better for her.
When we cannot change things, who can? The Lord God Almighty who can do all things, He can, and if we pray for HIS Will in her life, not ours, I Trust in Him, and I Believe He Will Not Forsake a Child of His, not even one.
Thank you Kimberly for the life lessons that I have needed here, and my prayers will continue to be with you knowing the Lord will hold you in the palm of His Hand with every step you take and with every choice you make along the way. And please remember that no matter what direction things take, as you find yourself in the fire, the Lord is right there beside you as you stand in it.
