Pre-incarnate means that Y-shua was alive before being born to the Virgin Mary. Amazing, huh? No one else in history can lay claim to anything of the sort. Y-shua is the unique pre-existent person, the Son of G-d and Son of man.
We know that when G-d made a bodily personal appearance in the Old Testament it was the Messiah who appeared. G-d the Father and the Holy Spirit, the other two members of the Trinity, do not have a "body" like the Messiah. So, when the Lord (aka Angel of Yahweh) visited earth, visibly encountering people, it was the pre-incarnate Messiah. I omitted any of G-d's appearances if the biblical record only consisted of the voice of G-d, because that could be any one of the Trinity members.
Genesis 3:8-24. Messiah visited Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden after they broke the commandment. They heard him "walking in the garden" so we know that it was Messiah. He cursed them, and Satan, mankind as a whole, and the earth, while in the Garden of Eden. This wasn't one of his happier appearances.
Genesis 16:7-13. The Angel of the Lord (Yehweh) is an Old Testament name for the pre-incarnate Messiah. So when we see the Lord referred to in this manner it will be listed. Messiah visited, comforted, and conversed with Abraham's mistress, Hagar, who had Abraham's son Ishmael with her.
Genesis 18:1-33. Messiah and two of his angels visited with Abraham, and announced the birth of Isaac. Messiah also announced the soon destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, which his two angels carried out the next day.
Genesis 21:17-18. The Angel of the Lord comforted Hagar once again, and informed her that a great nation would come out of her son, Ishmael.
� Genesis 22:11-18. Abraham was obeying G-d's command to sacrifice Isaac when the Angel of the Lord stopped him from thrusting the knife into Isaac. Messiah then provided a ram for the sacrifice.
� Genesis 31:11-13. The Angel of the Lord introduced himself to Jacob, and told him to return to the land of his birth.
� Genesis 32:24-32. Jacob wrestles with the Lord, and the Lord renames him Israel.
� Exodus 3:1-4:27. The Angel of the Lord gave Moses instructions on leading the captive nation of Israel out of their bondage to Egypt. Messiah appeared to Moses from a burning bush. Note: Moses may have returned to the Angel throughout the plagues, but the biblical text doesn't necessarily confirm it.
� Exodus 12:1-29. The night of the Passover Lamb brought death to all of the Egyptian firstborn human and animal males. Since this is a preview of the Lamb of G-d, the Messiah, I would presume that it was the pre-incarnate Messiah who inflicted the punishment.
� Exodus 34:5-28. Verses 5-6 says that "The Lord descended in the cloud and stood there with him,... then the Lord passed by in front of him." There is strong evidence that this occurrence was definitely the Messiah.
More Messiah In the Old Testament Appearances:
� Numbers 22:22-35. The Angel of the Lord appeared to Balaam in order that he stop his false prophesies. Messiah spoke through Balaam's donkey, but then revealed himself holding a sword.
� Deuteronomy 34:1-6. Messiah was possibly present at Moses' death. Verse 6 says, "And He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-Peor; but no man knows his burial place to this day." Jewish tradition also suggested that it was the Angel of the Lord who buried Moses.
� 1 Kings 19:4-8. The Angel of the Lord strengthened Elijah when he was fleeing from Jezebel.
� 2 Kings 19:35. The Angel of the Lord slaughtered 185,000 soldiers of Sennacherib's army.
� Judges 2:1-4. The Angel of the Lord chastised Israel for not doing as he commanded. He, therefore, put a curse on the future of Israel in the land. Joshua died soon after this visit from the Lord.
� Judges 5:23. The Angel of the Lord cursed Meroz. Messiah in the Old Testament, as you see, was a fairly common occurrence.
� Judges 6:11-22. The Angel of the Lord met Gideon face-to-face and commissioned Gideon to service. He was to deliver the Israelites from the nation of Midian. Displaying a lack of faith, Gideon didn't trust in the Lord's presence. He also had to lay out the fleece of wool to see if the Lord would send a sign. G-d did, and everything came to pass as Messiah commanded.
� Judges 13:3-22. The Angel of the Lord appeared to Manoah and his wife to announce the coming birth of Samson.
Still More Messiah In the Old Testament Appearances:
� 2 Samuel 24:16. In this ugly scene the Angel of the Lord stopped the destroying angel from killing more Israelites. King David of Israel approached Messiah, who was standing near Araunah the Jebusite's threshing floor. David repented and begged him to stop the slaughter. David asked that G-d's wrath come against him because the census was his idea.
� Daniel 3:19-30. Three Hebrews refused to worship the earthly king, Nebuchadnezzar. He was enraged and threw them into a blazing hot furnace. The Angel of the Lord came and visited. Read about the miracle in Daniel.
� Zechariah 1:12; 3:1-7; 12:8. This is a series of visits by the Angel of the Lord recorded by Zechariah the prophet.
Additionally, 1 Corinthians 10:4 confirmed that Messiah was the Rock who followed the nation of Israel out of Egypt (Exodus 14:19; 23:20). How could we forget the Lord leading his nation out of Egypt?
Messiah in the Old Testament recordings stopped at this point, but, as you'll see, his work never stops.
The prophecies and prophets also halted for centuries during a quiet era we refer to as the Intertestamental Period. The last recorded event is recorded in Nehemiah 13:4-30, and the last recorded prophecy is the book of Malachi. From those occurrences to the first records of the New Testament (Luke 1:5-25) 400 years had passed.
The "Angel of the Lord's" appearances notably ceased after Messiah's human birth, giving strong evidence for him being the pre-incarnate Messiah in the Old Testament.
This period was under G-d's sovereign control and critical for the coming Messiah's message. The 400 year era saw the Hebrew nation dispersed throughout a huge area of the eastern world, and into the western world. Most Jews came to live outside of Palestine through these centuries.
Why was this so important? Because the gospel of Y-shua Messiah largely spread via the Jewish synagogues found in distant lands. The propagation of Messiahianity was fueled by this situation. G-d was audibly quiet during this period, but he was very busy preparing the way for the salvation plan of Y-shua Messiah.
Isn't it wonderful to know that the G-d of the Bible has always been alive and active in the universe he himself planned and created? Remember, he isn't simply the alpha, but also the omega. He cared for, and he visited, the earth before he was born as a human. He is also sustaining his creation to this very day (Colossians 1:17), after dying and rising from the grave. There is no stopping our awesome G-d!
I agree with your idea of sexy. There are some people that they just have a thing about them even if they are not actually �good-looking� personally I prefer that. There are �dresses� that are just trampy but a dress worn by a sexy woman (I�m strait but I realize sexy is both genders) makes her beautiful� a speedo is nasty on ALL men but men even with a lot of flesh (fat) that has sex appeal can be attractive because they are sexy in the long swim shorts�.
I can't wait to ask Him what's the deal with mesquites and roaches... I will and do kill them every chance I get!!!!:ROFL: They make me wonder what was He thinking....:bow:
On our previous chatt on the guys' section about the fall of men in Eden, I learned that we ladies are supposed to be a true description of what God expects from the church... Submission and heart filled services to our chosen husbands, as Teach mentioned some of the services we ladies are to excel in performing, those were: Constantly praying for him, being courageous and supportive, at times going as far as leaving your profession so you mother he's kids (especially new borns) until they grown enough for you to cope with motherhood, being a wife and coperate industry.
Not sure about all of that� the curse was women will long for our husbands� and have pain in childbirth�.
I have found this curse�s both to be true� man�s attention is so easily drawn away (this is where we have to be creative but that�s why G-d gave us our women skills men don�t have�.lol and, well ever have a child of natural birth and you�ll find out� the church is male and female all of the human race is His bride.
Now submitting�. Not so bad when I have someone who does love me like Messiah loves the church, who understands prayers go unanswered because of how he treats his wife�. If he is a walker after Y-shua, and loves me like that, then yes I want to submit� even if he misses the mark on occasion� like I have said before the problem with women (me) we don�t want to wait for this type of man�.
I think the greatest service is giving up the right to be right!!!! There are times when men are stupid, especially with money, and you just see it plain as day he is WRONG!!!!!! But you pray, he still doesn�t get it� but if he is all the things G-d created him to be and he is serving G-d, trust G-d to make it all just be ok�. Sometimes giving up the right to be right and giving it to G-d is the greatest act of selfless love I have found (not just with a man by the way)�. But what can be so hard about that is not trusting the man because you know he is wrong but trusting G-d to have you covered for being obedient!!!!! Esteeming other higher than yourself like His Word says to.
The epistles, in contrast to the gospels, were all written from the viewpoint of an ascended Christ. They treat of a glorified Savior. How much we lose by their neglect! Why is it that when Christ comes to our minds our thoughts turn back to the "days of His flesh"? Why are our hearts so little occupied with the heavenly Christ? Why do we meditate so little upon His exaltation, His seat and session at God�s right hand? Is it not because we read the epistles so infrequently?
I do get what is being said but I do see Him shining brighter than the sun, with snow white hair, riding on His white horse, ridding on the winds coming down to same me from life. I agree sooo much� it is great that He died to save me but He ROSE MY G-D IS A LIVE AND HE SAVES ME!!!! HE BENDS DOWN HIS EAR TO HEAR ME WHENY I CRY HIS NAME HE PUTS EVERY TEAR IN A BOTTLE� EVERY KNNEE IN HEVEN< EARTH AND BENEATH BOWS DOWN TO HIM, THE KEYS TO HEAVEN AND HELL HE HOLD IN HIS HAND� I�m grateful for the cross but without the resection the cross would mean another false messiah� but NOP NOT MY Y-SSHUA� KING OF KINGS, LORD OF LORDS, MY DAD THAT LOVES ME AND RESCUES ME DAILY� when I die yep I get to go to heaven because of Him but He makes life worth a living because He LIVES!!!!!!!!!
It is the book of Ester that G-d is not mentioned at all. But we see His providence throughout the book. And it is because of G-d�s will coming to pass we still celebrate Purim to this very day. Purim celebrates the deliverance of the Jewish people from the wicked Haman in the days of Queen Esther of Persia. No matter what people want to think G-d�s people will never be destroyed because He said we will last forever!
Personally, I think you are always spot on but Jason Chestnut (or what ever his mane is) is a lot to be desired... for what it's worth....
Try reading about Gideon... Y-shua makes an appearance Himself to Gideon (Gideon worshiped the Angle of the Lord) and Gideon obeys the Lord in the army of 300 that frees us from the Philistines!!!!
The closest we get are in the words of Paul (which, it's important to remember, do not encompass all that Jesus the Christ was/is/will be). In his letter to the Christian community in Rome (3:25) and his first letter to the one in Corinth (15:4), Paul wrestles with this idea (especially in the latter, where the words "Christ died for our sins" is right there, although it's followed with "in accordance with the scriptures," which begs the question - which scriptures? The Hebrew scriptures? The Gospel stories?).
Am I talking to another Jew� yes the Hebrew Scriptures� there is no forgiveness of sin without the blood, He is the sacrificial Lamb slain before the foundations of the world and Pesach is a shadow of Him� Messiah is to be executed by crucifixion as a thief Psalm 22:16; Zechariah 12:10; Isaiah 53:5, 12; fulfilled in Luke 23:33; John 20:25; Matthew 27:38; Mark 5:27, 28 and the Gospels� what about Messiah is to be executed by crucifixion as a thief Psalm 22:16; Zechariah 12:10; Isaiah 53:5, 12; fulfilled in Luke 23:33; John 20:25; Matthew 27:38; Mark 5:27, 28? Did Y-shua make that up? Or maybe He was going to die of old age then be resurrected�
